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ghezzi
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ghezzi

Posts : 2788
Join date : 2014-05-22
Age : 62

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PostSubject: First timer   First timer Icon_minitime1Thu May 22, 2014 11:05 pm

Ghezzi here,
I will have to sit at the back of the classroom as I don't own a GRiSO. Cafe'd Bellagio is my current ride.
Another member spotted my posts on GuzziTech and thought I should join here as some of you are doing wonderful things to the tuning, without add-ons like PC-V.

I will have to read and study and try and decipher computa jargon, a bit IT challenged and the grey matter is on the downhill slide.

Anyhow, see ya's al'round.
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Steak
L'Innominato
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Steak

Posts : 2456
Join date : 2013-05-28
Age : 54

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PostSubject: Re: First timer   First timer Icon_minitime1Thu May 22, 2014 11:24 pm

Welcome to the ghetto Ghezzi!

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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beetle
GRiSO Capo
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beetle

Posts : 6724
Join date : 2013-09-30

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PostSubject: Re: First timer   First timer Icon_minitime1Thu May 22, 2014 11:47 pm

Greetings. Brian isn't it? Or is my brain addled....

Was it Tony by any chance who got you to come visit?
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ghezzi
GRiSO Capo
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ghezzi

Posts : 2788
Join date : 2014-05-22
Age : 62

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PostSubject: Re: First timer   First timer Icon_minitime1Fri May 23, 2014 2:50 am

Uuummm. Real name is Wayne, Tony the rocket scientist invited me over.

Also had conversations with Môn suer Roper in the past about the market leaning towards multiple add-on elecktrickery to adjust AFR.

I understand jets and needles better than 110101000111010111

Will follow the adventurers here with a laptop and OEM ECU re-mapping
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Pete Roper
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Pete Roper

Posts : 6444
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PostSubject: Re: First timer   First timer Icon_minitime1Fri May 23, 2014 3:00 am

Bellagio uses W5AM I believe, (I got that wrong before but the system is a weird sort of hybrid.) so it should be possible to use the usual Guzzidiag software although maybe different xdf files. That's Murray and Beetle's area......

Pete
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ghezzi
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ghezzi

Posts : 2788
Join date : 2014-05-22
Age : 62

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PostSubject: Re: First timer   First timer Icon_minitime1Fri May 23, 2014 3:36 am

Hi Pete,
Seeing as I spent $250 last weekend on the dyno to get rid of persistent flat spot off idle (really bad when cold), plus the crackle pop and fart on the over run, I'll leave it alone till it breaks.

This had persisted for 2 years, but I hardly rode the bike in that time. Another self proclaimed tuning expert offered to fix my bike some months ago as well as raise the rev limiter to 8,800rpm. Well he had no success with the tuning and last weekends dyno revealed the rev limit is still set at OEM 8,300rpm.

Got to Fred's last Sat and queried the PC-V wiring. Left injector connected to PC-V, right injector still connected directly to OEM ECU. WTF!
Most of the fuelling problem was instantly cured, except for the addition of a new K&N.

Addition of K&N added no more peak HP but between 4-6k I gained 3 HP and ft/lbs.
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Pete Roper
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Pete Roper

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PostSubject: Re: First timer   First timer Icon_minitime1Fri May 23, 2014 4:27 am

Ioubt you'll find any experts here, self proclaimed or otherwise. What you will find is clever people willing to share their knowledge. I don't put myself n that group but I'm happy to be associated with them. The results speak for themselves.

Pete
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: First timer   First timer Icon_minitime1Fri May 23, 2014 4:36 am

Sorry Wayne. See? Addled brain. I got a bit suspicious when Tony mentioned working on a Bellagio map. I've already whipped one up as a start and sent it to him.

The Bellagio does have a hybrid setup. 5AM ECU and a hardware adjustable TPS.
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ghezzi
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ghezzi

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PostSubject: Re: First timer   First timer Icon_minitime1Fri May 23, 2014 5:22 am

Beetle, what do you mean by "hybrid setup" etc.

I'm keen to learn new tricks, as much as that is possible for an ol' dog like me. I'm afraid I'm worse than Pete when it comes to anything with a 'puta attached. Programs & files seem to disappear, I'm sure my keyboard has multiple unmarked "void" buttons.

So I gotta PC-V attached to Bella with twin fuel maps and stock ignition mapping, but it is running fine. Then Tony tells me the best is yet to come with a stock ECU and a laptop.

I've only read 5 pages so far of the 40pg "GuzziDiag" thread, still learning.
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beetle
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beetle

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PostSubject: Re: First timer   First timer Icon_minitime1Fri May 23, 2014 5:54 am

All the later model Guzzi's like the 8V's and 4V GRiSO/Norge/Sport have a TPS that is 100% read/reset by the ECU. The Bellagio is different in that like 4V Cali's has a TPS that must be manually adjusted by reading the voltage with voltmeter. When you 'reset' the TPS the ECU reads that voltage and calls it 4.6 or 3.8 or whatever the reset position is. I think I got that right.

I don't like black boxes fiddling with my injection. I think they're kludges. I like to modify the maps so the bike runs the way it should without 3rd party intervention.

That's just me. If your solution is working for you, then no point changing it.


cheers
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ghezzi
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ghezzi

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PostSubject: Re: First timer   First timer Icon_minitime1Fri May 23, 2014 2:09 pm

I've had two PC's fail on two different Guzzi's I've owned, they were fitted and tuned professionally.
I only touched them to unplug them as a means of getting home.

Never had a break down on any other Guzzi I've owned. So one day, the PC will get binned.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: First timer   First timer Icon_minitime1Fri May 23, 2014 2:47 pm

I had a PC-V on my 8V GRiSO. It was a bloody disaster. Now I'm a bit like those born-again types, vehemently opposed to what I previously embraced.  

Having said that, I understand that the PC works pretty well on the 4V engines.


If you're willing, I can free you from Dynojet's evil clutches. It will take a bit of patience and road testing, but I can do it.

cheers
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: First timer   First timer Icon_minitime1Fri May 23, 2014 3:26 pm

I know that a certain gentleman who sells PC's pooh-poohs my experience but I can assure you that I am not alone in my reservations about the suitability of the PCV-AT system. Nor is that skepticism confined to their use on Guzzis.

As Mark has said my experience of them has been a disaster, especially on the 8V but at least one other person who used to be a moderator on the board run by the PC's chief advocate actually gave up on the brand and sold his Breva 1100 because the system was so ineffectual on his machine and promoted over-fueling to a damaging degree.

I have ridden ONE PCV-AT equipped 1100 in Los Angeles that was a truly astonishing joy. The problem is that it was a heavily worked motor a long way from stock so using it as a baseline for performance of the aftermarket fueling device would be pointless. Also no matter how well it appeared to run I have no idea as to its fuel efficiency or whether it was over-fueling to the point of washing its bores as an 8V is want to do.

Certainly on earlier 16 and 15M equipped machines set up properly with a PCIII I know you can get spectacular results. I still don't like it as it requires hacking into the loom and it is simply adding more risk points for failure but I will happily say that as a workable, if somewhat pricey, solution they work.

The reason I am so taken with the ability of Paul and Beard's work is that it is so clean, elegant and flexible and in the right hands, (Of which mine aren't some of them!) it can be used to produce results in terms of both performance and economy improvements that, quite frankly, if you'd told me were achievable six months ago I would of scoffed at!

I'm very lucky in that I have Mark only a few hours away and he is not only generous to a fault and willing to work for beer and venison, (I'll be picking that up from Westy this Arvo. When are you next in Canberra?Very Happy) but he also has the smarts and understanding of what he is hing to achieve and how to do it that will take me a long, long time to get my head around as I freely admit my understanding of all things computer related is miniscule! Obviously there are others like Paul and Dave M who spring immediately to mind who seem to be similarly motivated to use their skills and knowledge to help others, seemingly for the simple pleasure to be acquired from helping! How good is that?

This is one of the things that makes the interwebs great! You can meet like minded people who you otherwise would never of had the opportunity to meet or even know existed and then share and learn! The term 'Awesome' is one greatly overused nowadays with even the most mundane occurrences being described thus. Bottom line is I for one am in awe of what I'm learning and the day you stop learning is the day your arse no longer points to the ground!

Pete
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: First timer   First timer Icon_minitime1Fri May 23, 2014 3:33 pm

Pete Roper wrote:

I'm very lucky in that I have Mark only a few hours away and he is not only generous to a fault and willing to work for beer and venison, (I'll be picking that up from Westy this Arvo. When are you next in Canberra?Very Happy) but he also has the smarts and understanding of what he is hing to achieve and how to do it that will take me a long, long time to get my head around as I freely admit my understanding of all things computer related is miniscule! Obviously there are others like Paul and Dave M who spring immediately to mind who seem to be similarly motivated to use their skills and knowledge to help others, seemingly for the simple pleasure to be acquired from helping! How good is that?


Stop it! I'm blushing. Thanks Pete. BTW if Westy has some loin I'll take that too.  Yummy. I have to do a service on some poxy xray equipment in Garran in the next two weeks. See you then!

cheers
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: First timer   First timer Icon_minitime1Fri May 23, 2014 3:38 pm

False modesty is as much of a sin as hubris. You do astonishing work you have every reason to be proud of. So? Be proud of it!

I think at the moment Westy's got you a side of cutlets and a haunch. I'll see what else is available. He knocked over eight young 'uns but demand for his, errrr.... 'Product' is always high.. Very Happy

Pete
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
Oz1200Guzzi

Posts : 3700
Join date : 2014-03-13
Age : 64

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PostSubject: Re: First timer   First timer Icon_minitime1Fri May 23, 2014 4:53 pm

Welcome Wayne - and guilty as charged Mark.

This is THE BEST place to reside if you want your Guzzi to run like she should. Like Pete says, you will need to invest in some cables, a laptop of some sort and a hefty dose of patience. The rewards will be great and the enjoyment of your Bella will go up in leaps and bounds.

Now that you have your suspension sorted, getting the donk up to scratch will be the next bit.

Read what has been posted in tuning with GuzziDiag, ask silly questions (I have done plenty of those - though you will get paid out some) and learn about ECU and mapping on the way.

Have fun mate. Did you get to the Budgie? I left early Saturday morning and made it home (Wollongong) in the one day. Something about work commitments...
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: First timer   First timer Icon_minitime1Fri May 23, 2014 9:35 pm

Hi Tony,
I've got an R232 cable for my Ignitec and 485 2 stroke twin - the project I should be working on.
Have a vintage laptop running Windows XP, it will need upgrading to better hard n software.

Still have a few tweaks to complete the Matris, hydraulic pre-load seals leaking, plus some shimming suggestions from Alberto at Matris HQ.

Then discs keep giving the lo-speed pulsations, even the new Metal Gear's.  Suspect 

But considering I will be able to play with ignition curves as well on Bella I will eventually convert.
Having bungs already in both my headers, would twin wideband O2 sensors & AFR meters speed up the process?
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
Oz1200Guzzi

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PostSubject: Re: First timer   First timer Icon_minitime1Fri May 23, 2014 11:04 pm

Wayne, I run an old laptop running Win 2000 - doesn't run TunerPro though - XP should be good - teaches patience. Somewhere earlier in this thread there is a link to the cables - you are trawling anyway, when you find, order them - then you can get the mumbo happening.

See Mark's (Beetle) thread on using GuzziDiag and the first thing to do is do a read and pull you current map - put it in a safe place - you can always go back to it later (why you would, I have no idea).

People can assist if you get stuck...
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: First timer   First timer Icon_minitime1Fri May 23, 2014 11:07 pm

ghezzi wrote:
 
But considering I will be able to play with ignition curves as well on Bella I will eventually convert.
Having bungs already in both my headers, would twin wideband O2 sensors & AFR meters speed up the process?


Sure. It will be helpful in two ways; getting the delta-fuel map right and the final main map.
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