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 Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales

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sidrat
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PostSubject: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:56 pm

So, my GRiSO is 10 years old next year and i will have owned it for 5 of them.

Since passing my bike test at 15, i have averaged 1.6 motorcycle purchases per annum.

This means that i should have bought 8 bikes in the past 5 years and i have only bought 2 (the GRiSO and a track day bike), this is a reduction of 75% in the numbers of motorcycles purchased. The fault is entirely due to the fact that Moto Guzzi have made a motorcycle that i finally like enough to keep.

I blame Moto Guzzi and i am suprised they have not been sued by other motorcycle manufactueres for their negligence in single handedly reducing world wide motorcycle sales.

Luckily i guess not everyone sees it that way....
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cognosticator
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:23 am

I understand completely and agree LOL

In 2017 I bought 4 motorcycles, the last being the GRiSO

In 2018 zero purchases and still loving the GRiSO
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:11 am

Agreed Sid, owned 50+ bikes in 45 years and upto 5 at once.
Longest previous ownership of a single bike, less than 2 years.
I've had Bella 7 years now and will not add to my collection (of 2) unless I win lotto.
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:00 am

I was looking for any reasons to disagree:
- it can't be our fault due to we're getting older
- it can't be economics because owning lots of bikes is PIA to manage & cost
- it can't be fault of the outstanding distributor, service & support groups
- it can't be that there aren't lots of potential alternatives
but on reflection I think you are right Wink

I had 50% reduction by selling BMW because it was too boring !


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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:02 pm

Once bitten by the transverse V-Twin, it's hard to comprehend anything else. There are exceptions, occasionally, but the MGs are generally keepers.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:51 pm

I've been riding and working on Guzzis for almost forty years simply because I like them. They're a bit quirky but overall they tend to be solidly engineered.

They seem to produce 'Families' of machines that I either really like or that I feel ambivalent about. Loopframes leave me pretty much cold, I never really saw what people see in them? The Tonti framed bikes, especially the early 'Short Head' models are brilliant and for their time outstanding. The Spineframe models always left me, once again, feeling a bit ambivalent. There was nothing really *wrong* with them, they just seemed a bit 'Too little, Too late'. With the advent of the CARC series my interest was really rekindled and my enthusiasm was stoked further by the introduction of the 8V. Here, at last, and finally, was a package that dragged the transverse twin kicking and screaming into very nearly the twenty first century.

Sure the GRiSO is still pretty porky and sure it's 'Puny' by modern standards 100 or so RWHP looks, on paper, underwhelming but, like so many other Guzzis before it surprises with its abilities and punches well above its weight. As a 'Road' bike it is second to none.

I've owned my 1200 since 2008, it was one of the first in the country. Before that I had an 1100 for two years. If the factory had set out with a design brief to build a bike specifically for me I don't think they could of done a better job. Yes, I've made plenty of changes but these are mainly to upgrade the suspension and brakes and a few bits of bling, the powerplant and driveline is effectively unchanged apart of course from its mapping. Really though, mapping and flat tappet fiasco aside, the entire package was pretty damn good straight out of the box. There are plenty of other bikes with far more issues available.

I'm currently seriously looking at disposing of all my 'Old' Guzzi stuff, as in pre 2000, even my much loved Convert is on the block because I don't have the time or really the interest to get it up and running any more. I want to stick a sidecar on my Cali and I've got to get my Stelvio up and running again. I'm running out of years! I really don't want to to spend my retirement endlessly groundhog daying what I've spent a lifetime doing, I'm a bit over it if the truth be told! Very Happy My GRiSO though I'll be riding until I no longer can. It's a gem of a machine and a thing to me of both elegance and beauty. Why would I want to change? And to what? A V85? Why would I want to go back to some wheezing, asthmatic 2 valve shitter with an archaic hemi head combustion chamber design and pushrods for the love of mike! No thanks! When they hi-cam and 4V it I might think about it. Until then? Well there's that big Husky single that looks like fun and now the Aprilia RS660 in the pipeline. As another bloke said on a forum I frequent, "That thing makes my pants tight!" Twisted Evil

Pete
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Grisonut
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:36 pm

I really agree with Pete about what the GRiSO is.
The look is just too wild in nailing retro and modern appearances while having asymmetrical bits in the mix. Try to duplicate that with another model or different brand. BMW R9T you say? Pleaaaaase...
The cherry on top is the 8V mill (roller of course), the power delivery is simply awesome in my opinion.
Big torque right here, right now, and easy to manage.
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:08 am

That Aprilia RS660 looks fantastic, i had an RS250 wish i still had!, it was a real hooligan machine, not that i am a hooligan your honour.....

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il Postino
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:43 am

I purchased my first Guzzi-- a leftover '14 8V --in 2015.  Although I've looked at other bikes since, the only thing I have added to my stable is an '86 VFR, and that one was purely for nostalgia's sake.

I was recently looking at a 2001 Honda RC51 (RVT1000) SP1, and read a period road test to get familiar with the bike.  Stock, it's drawbacks were: 1) kind of heavy, 2) not the fastest turner and requires some body-English to ride, 3) too much rebound on the rear shock; 4) only around 100hp at the rear wheel, 5) touchy throttle due to a poor stock fuel map, and 6) crummy gas mileage.

Those attributes sound familiar don't they?  Kind of like a brother from another mother, but maybe I will have to actually ride the RC to find out if I really want to add it as well.

Anyway, I love my Beetle-mapped GRiSO with its Titanium Arrow exhaust.  It will get handed down to one of my kids in the future!
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Papa Lazarou
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:00 am

I've mainly owned Tonti framed Guzzis-Spada, 850 T3, Cali T3, Convert. Each one was a peach and hard for me to sell on...usually driven by "three bikes is too many" or being broke.

I've owned other bikes, which I was equally fond of-Norton Dominators (including the much maligned Atlas-balance the crank and they are fine) and a Hinckley Triumph Thunderbird 900.

I have had a number of Jap bikes but few did anything for me. The Blackbird was a consummate tourer, though. But then, so was the rather slower Triumph Trophy 1200.

I went through a period of buying bikes-up to five a year-and getting rid of them. A few I loved-Morini 31/2 and, surprisingly, a Suzuki TU250, but, as my health comes back, the GRiSO is a keeper.

But I still want another Velosolex….
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Sunbeam
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:09 pm

Nice theme for the thread. I am more of a brouser than a joiner in but this has motivated me.
Owned 50 plus bikes over the years and with each passing purchase learning what it is i value in a bike.
Clean and fettle my ktm and rearly appreciate its fast do it all vibe but it does not give me that same affinity with the engine and sense of endearing character that the GRiSO does. At a point where I believe it is a keeper.
Peter
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GuzziSteve
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:02 pm

Just say No.
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sideshowbob
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:04 pm

Hey Sunbeam, ever had one of these?

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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:28 am

Pete Roper wrote:


****The Tonti framed bikes, especially the early 'Short Head' models are brilliant and for their time outstanding.****
Pete

OK, Pete.

With due regard for Emerson's aphorism about consistency and hobgoblins, I thought I recall you often saying that you detested Tontis.  

Oh, wait.  Mebbe it's just my hotdog & mustard one.  Sigh. Sad


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cheers

Bill

P.S. Seriously, nice post.
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Omnis
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:22 am

Further proof of the opening axiom :

from 1975 to 1981 I owned 5 bikes : Puch125, Honda250, Kawasaki750, Ducati900gts and lastly bought my MG 750S3 in '81. Fast forward to 2012, (marriage, 2 children, 2 grand children, move from UK to Canada), the 750S3 got a mate : GRiSO 12008V Tenni. Here I stand with my two wonderful motorcycles.
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GHTE
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:56 pm

Its mostly us older farts that seem to love the Guzzis. For mine its the sheer lack of electronic interference, beautiful engine characteristics, ease of maintenance, outrageous good looks and harking back to my youth where a bike was more than just a ride.
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Sunbeam
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:06 pm

Sold mine last August[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Stubbie
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:43 pm

My old man had one of those back in 1954 and a Vincent in 1952 I think it was.
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:21 am

This where we say 'she has a great personality'  Razz  Razz  

Bill Hagan wrote:
Pete Roper wrote:


****The Tonti framed bikes, especially the early 'Short Head' models are brilliant and for their time outstanding.****
Pete

OK, Pete.

With due regard for Emerson's aphorism about consistency and hobgoblins, I thought I recall you often saying that you detested Tontis.  

Oh, wait.  Mebbe it's just my hotdog & mustard one.  Sigh. Sad


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cheers

Bill

P.S. Seriously, nice post.
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Bulldog9
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:42 am

I concur, with the general point of the thread and Pete's comments on the GRiSO and CARC bikes.

In the 45 years I've been riding and buying motorcycles, I've probably owned 25, but only bought two new. A 2004 FZ1 (which I wrecked on the Cherahola skyway) and the Stornello I bought last summer.

Granted, I only entered Guzzi land in 2015, but I cant see ever buying anything else, How do you top a GRiSO?  Of course I have the slower but BETTER 4V 1100, but.... ;-)

If my quasi ADV plans for the Stornello work out, will probably get rid of the Norge, and long term want to turn the Stornello into a Uralish thing with a side car.  So I cant imagine buying anything else.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:30 pm

Well my plan came to fruition. Sold all of my pre-2000 stuff this weekend, $7K, no haggling, all gone.

Now to work on getting the Stelvio back up and running and I'll have to decide whether to keep it or move it along. Right now I'm hoping I still enjoy it and feel safe on it. It's just that it's a very big, heavy, machine with a full tank of gas. If I drop it I'll have a reall struggle getting it upright again. Yeah, I'm feeling my age, especially with the rash of recent deaths of friends I've been through I'm a bit pessimistic.

I'll be able to plug sone of the money into the sidecar project for now. Of course that still means I have to get on with sorting out my Hydro Cali. That'll be fun. I haven't done a Hydro recall for over a decade! I wonder if I'll remember how? Laughing

Pete
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GHTE
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:49 pm

Hey Pete, whats a Hydro Recall.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:44 pm

In the early 2000's, 2002-2004 to be precise, Guzzi had a version of their venerable 1100cc-2V motor which rather than using conventional screw and locknut valve lash adjustment utilised hydraulic lifters rendering the motor both extremely quiet and virtually maintenance free. At least that was the theory.

Unfortunately in inimitable Guzzi style they completely screwed up the engineering and the cams and tappets failed spectacularly! The Hydro models were also plagued by poorly manufactured lower fork yokes and initially a single plate clutch that wore out in a couple of thousand miles!

They were the first model to be produced under the auspices of Aprilia control and were a complete disaster that led to the wholesale sacking of virtually the entire design and engineering department at Mandela and the beginning of the end of 'In House' design by Guzzi as an individual entity.

The tragedy is that when they finally got the engine reliable, (There were three or four recalls in the two and a half years they were in production.) it is unquestionably the nicest 1100 motor out there with absolutely linear torque from idle to red-line and supposedly a few more HP although I've never noticed that as you don't tend to rev a Hydro out!

Because of their near infamous reputation as a grenade they command very low prices. I picked mine up, a fully bagged EV, for $1,000. Now although it hasn't had the 'Final' recall it hasn't grenaded and I've picked up a 'Final' upgrade kit for short money from an old friend in the US. All I've got to do is find the time to install it! Once fixed with the last upgrade kit they are simply bulletproof in the engine department so I'm planning on giving it a full top end service at the same time after which I'm hoping to never have to look inside the engine ever again! Other things I feel I should do are replace a couple of known weak bearings in the gearbox and I really want to fit a 7/33 bevelbox as the 8/33 is way too high even for solo work!

As Bill will tell you a Cali 1100 is a wonderful thing in a sort of quaint, antediluvian way! I'm looking forward to getting mine sorted and registered.

Pete
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Dilliw
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:46 pm

A GRiSO and a Hydro....  Brilliant!

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Street
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PostSubject: Re: Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales   Moto Guzzi are responsible for worldwide slowdown in bike sales Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:57 pm

Pete,

I applaud the idea of putting a sidecar on the Hydro, we are getting a big kick out of ours, and it hardly ever falls over! BTW, I sent another note to Barrie about the steering mod a couple of weeks ago, but haven't heard back...

Pete

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