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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
Oz1200Guzzi

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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:09 pm

Engine head temp is indeed a rough number that talks to your ECU to tell when the engine is warm - there may be some correlation between oil and head temperature, but probably it's a long (hopeful) shot.
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Brent S
Grignapoco
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:16 pm

Well, this issue has me perplexed, as I’ve never run the bike for less than 45 minutes, usually at least an hour. To me, the engine feels pretty bloody hot after I park the bike. You can feel the heat radiating off it, yet the mayo problem exists.

Hence, in the interest of science (and to piss a couple of hundred $$$ into the wind), I’ve also ordered one of those dipstick thermometers mentioned in this thread. I’ve also ordered one of those oil cooler covers with the sliding vent system. Granted, the latter may look like it fell off a cylon from Battlestar Galactica, but I don’t really care. I will share my findings with anyone who is interested.

Probably a couple of weeks until the parts arrive.
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Stromgriso
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:59 pm

Looking forward to seeing your data! Thanks!
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Brent S
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:29 pm

Stromgriso, I intend to do something similar to what you are planning. Get some oil temp data with nothing over the oil cooler, then fit the cooler cover and get some more data with it “full open” and “full closed” positions. Clearly I’ll do this on the same day to keep ambient temp fluctuations as nominal as possible. If it makes no difference at all, you’ll likely see the offending adjustable oil cooler cover on eBay shortly thereafter........
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Stromgriso
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:32 pm

That’s why I’ll be using the low tech cardboard method! Thumbs Up
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:38 pm

The ETS reading is taken at the base of the RH barrel but even it is affected by air flow and ambient temperature. The difference between what it reads and the oil temperature in the sump will be enormous. If it's wet it will be even greater!

Pete
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Stromgriso
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:41 pm

Thanks Pete. I think you’re saying start small with baby steps then? I greatly appreciate your wealth of knowledge!

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:37 pm

The crux of the issue is that the sensor that is used is really designed to be run in a water jacket or raiator tank. In such a situation, once warmed up, the temperature will remain pretty much constant as long as coolant flow and radiator area are adequate because the temperature is thermostatically controlled.

In our bikes the sensor is far more prone to external temperature influence which makes merry hell for map building.

On the issue of moisture in the oil? Getting rid of that requires the oil to be above at least 85*C and preferably over 100*C. With the cooling circuit not being thermostatically controlled until ambient is over 20-25*C or the bike is really being thrashed the oil just won’t usually get that hot. If it’s raining? Forget it! It’s just not gunna happen!

Pete
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Stromgriso
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:48 pm

Here we call it liquid sunshine! Cool No worries!
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usedtobefast
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:57 am

Brent S wrote:
Stromgriso, I intend to do something similar to what you are planning. Get some oil temp data with nothing over the oil cooler, then fit the cooler cover and get some more data with it “full open” and “full closed” positions. Clearly I’ll do this on the same day to keep ambient temp fluctuations as nominal as possible. If it makes no difference at all, you’ll likely see the offending adjustable oil cooler cover on eBay shortly thereafter........

Seems most guys just block the intake air to the oil cooler. The oil cover on the side that is extremely visible is the "exhaust" air, air flows out of there. Seems easier to use black duct tape and partially (or fully) block the air intake side. Much cheaper! Smile
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kiwi dave
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:05 am

usedtobefast wrote:


Seems most guys just block the intake air to the oil cooler.  The oil cover on the side that is extremely visible is the "exhaust" air, air flows out of there.  Seems easier to use black duct tape and partially (or fully) block the air intake side.  Much cheaper!  Smile

Don't agree.  My free plastic ice cream container cutouts have got to be cheaper than your duct tape, no matter how cheap you got them.

Also, I can easily remove or swap sizes depending on the weather, and quickly reinsert them.  Try that with duct tape.
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usedtobefast
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:07 pm

kiwi dave wrote:
usedtobefast wrote:


Seems most guys just block the intake air to the oil cooler.  The oil cover on the side that is extremely visible is the "exhaust" air, air flows out of there.  Seems easier to use black duct tape and partially (or fully) block the air intake side.  Much cheaper!  Smile

Don't agree.  My free plastic ice cream container cutouts have got to be cheaper than your duct tape, no matter how cheap you got them.

Also, I can easily remove or swap sizes depending on the weather, and quickly reinsert them.  Try that with duct tape.

I was just suggesting duct tape as a sophisticated solution. I use black socks myself. Smile
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avgpetro
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:53 am

Just thinking...

My 1100 has a "thermostatic valve" (GU01163500), missing from the 1200s.
Typing "motorcycle oil thermostat" in google, gives some interesting results.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:34 am

The 1100 has a thermostat. The 1200's and 1400's don't. Don't believe the factory manual.
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avgpetro
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:44 am

Pete Roper wrote:
The 1100 has a thermostat. The 1200's and 1400's don't. Don't believe the factory manual.

Thanks, the answer I was hopping for.

Seems that there are oil thermostats that can be installed externaly, Googled "motorcycle oil thermostat" and got lots of results. They bypas the oil cooler, and looks that they're prety small.
This could solve the problem.
Sizing sould require some research
- too small will restrict oil flow
- too large will result in waves of hot and cool oil to the engine untill the cooler warms up.

Too big valve senario: thermostat bypass the coller untill 83C, if the cooler contains 0.6L(wild guess) of oil, lets say the oil in the cooler is at 10C:
- When the 3L of circulating oil gets hotter than 83C, suddenly the cooler will be added in the flow, and the engine will receive a wave of oil at 10C.
- The 10C will cool the thermostat itshelf bellow 83C, so it will again bypass the cooler, resulting in a 83C+ wave of oil to the engine.
- The 83C+ oil through the thermostat will result to a new wave of cool oil to the engine.
- This will be pereated untill the oil in the cooler gets above 83C
Its called "hunting" and its a known phenomenon in controls when oversized valves are used.
I have no idea what effect - if any - this will have to the engine.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:37 pm


I will tell you as soon as I know. It's one of my current projects.


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ecs
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ecs

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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:06 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Is this the right one? Looks like 1 left. Around USD$35
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Richard
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:57 am

I don't think so.

I bought the following one recently --> Click
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Stromgriso
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:37 am

In the book, “Guzziology”, the author (Dave Richardson) describes adding a vent system to Guzzi valve covers as a method to have the water/oil vapor residue separated and vented to eliminate the valve cover build up.  He has some diagrams from different Guzzi engines than ours.  Anyone have experience or thoughts on this?  It could be a way to address this issue.
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pkroupa
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:38 am

beetle wrote:

I will tell you as soon as I know. It's one of my current projects.


So I'm waiting for your results. Thanks in advance :-)
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Stromgriso
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:53 am

All I plan on doing is keeping an eye on oil temp and monitoring for schmutzig residue at my next valve cover removal- within 6 months or so. Just changed the original oil and installed Fuchs 10w-60 full synthetic. Rode the snot out of the bike yesterday. My subjective impression is that the she seems to like it.
As an aside, I’ve been wrenching on everything from aircraft to semiconductor manufacturing equipment for the last 40 years or so. In that time, one of the most important rules is, “Do no harm”. If there isn’t a documented procedure for any wrench turning that isn’t proven that isn’t data driven and proven, I’ll not be doing it...don’t like breaking things. Especially good running motorcycles.

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:18 pm

It is very likely that in cold weather you'll always get mayonnaise in the rocker covers. They are right out in the airstream and well insulated from the heads themselves, even if you can get the oil temperature up the rocker covers will probably condense water out of the internal gasses in the crankcase.

Pete
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Stromgriso
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:15 am

Yes Indeed Pete. Just another feature of these wonderful machines!  I rode the other day (it was a chilly 40F or so) and “gave her the beans” as they say.  Got it good and hot the way the Guzzi engineers intended.  Maybe the schmutz was from too short test rides while my bike was languishing at the Ducati dealership before I rescued her.  Seems like spirited riding might be the best way to keep both machine and operator in the best condition anyway.  Thanks!
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tvboy
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:29 am

I feel a bit left out. I haven't ridden mine hard and mine showed no mayo, just oil.
I don't know if it matters but mine has been getting Motorex 10w-60.
I also don't ride in wet conditions so that could be part of it too.
Maybe a simple solution to the excessive cooling might be stuffing a thick strip of neoprene pipe insulation into the cooler's intake. If it's over-cooled that would certainly warm it up.
When the air temps warm up just remember to remove the stuffing.
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Stromgriso
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PostSubject: Re: Valve cover schmutz   Valve cover schmutz - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:32 am

Thanks Dave!  I’ll just ride the stuffing out of it then! Very Happy
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