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Ian p
Carlotto
Carlotto
Ian p

Posts : 37
Join date : 2016-10-10
Age : 58

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PostSubject: pulling my hair out   pulling my hair out Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:38 am

Afternoon all.
as the title says I am pulling my hair out, and i have precious little left any way!
after a month away in good old blighty (and touring round France on my old Mille GT) I attempted to start my GRiSO.

all I currently get is the dash doing its little dance of impending happiness, then all the lights go out save the side stand warning light. Nothing else bar the occasional mocking click of a relay in the side panel.

now, in the interest of transparency, I have established the following:
1. The battery is absolutely fine and fully charged.
2. I have jumped the starter direct from the battery and it turns over with gusto, but still fails to fire.
3. I can hear the fuel pump prime.
4. Prior to my holiday the bike ran just fine, the only thing different is the intervening 4 weeks.
5. All the fuses are fine and all the connections are corrosion free.
6. I have incorporated the MPH startus interruptus fix and this has been working perfectly.
7. There is fuel in the tank.

the bike simply refuses to do anything but mock me, as if to say i should have never gone on holiday and enjoyed another bike. All I can hear in my lonely silent garage is the echo of my finger jabbing at the starter button in increasing frustration.

obviously there is some electrical gremlin that has invaded the wiring but I am at a loss as to where its located.

Questions then for the gathered intelligentsia.

a. could the dash have crapped itself through just sitting there being ignored ?
b. could the ECU have just upped and decided it wanted to commit suicide in my absence ?
c. is there some mystical fuse or relay or some such esoteric electrical device that Guzzi designed as a known fail point just to test owners that I cant locate ?
d. has the transponder in my one and only key failed? (yes I now know I should never have bought the bike with only one key, but I didnt know that at the time)
e. Do I now have to go and buy lonelec cables and guzzidiag ?

I await with baited breath the impending avalanche of sage advise and rampant piss taking, and i thank you all in advance for your forbearance.
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Pete Roper
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
Pete Roper

Posts : 6486
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 62

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PostSubject: Re: pulling my hair out   pulling my hair out Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:43 am

It's the middle of winter, you've been away for a month. Did you pull the 30A fuse before you went away? What battery do you have?
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beetle
GRiSO Capo
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beetle

Posts : 6804
Join date : 2013-09-30

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PostSubject: Re: pulling my hair out   pulling my hair out Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:03 am


So, from your blurb it doesn't turn over when you get jabby, but it turns over by jumping 'ol sparky.

No mention of neutral light? What's the neutral light doing 'twixt all this? Staying dim? If the ECU thinks it in gear, him no starty unless clutchy gets clutched. If clutch switch is defunct, then him no starty ever.

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Ian p
Carlotto
Carlotto
Ian p

Posts : 37
Join date : 2016-10-10
Age : 58

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PostSubject: Re: pulling my hair out   pulling my hair out Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:08 am

hi Pete thanks for the prompt response,
I will admit I didnt pull any fuses, and when i got back the red light was blinking quite happily, but knowing the way these things degrade over time I stuck the battery on charge overnight anyway.

the battery is a YTX16 something or other and has been happily starting the bike for the last couple of years. I direct connected across the starter solenoid and it turned over very well, which seems to indicate there is no lack of cold cranking amps, and the horn, side light, indicators and brake lights all work admirably, just no turnee over or starty-warty, its like the ECU is taking the p#ss or something.

i am currently very confuzzled
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Ian p
Carlotto
Carlotto
Ian p

Posts : 37
Join date : 2016-10-10
Age : 58

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PostSubject: Re: pulling my hair out   pulling my hair out Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:14 am

Hi Mark,
yep the neutral lights and all the other lights all go off apart from the sidestand warning light as soon as the lights have done there little jig.

I have tried with the clutch in and out and the side stand up and down, still no go.

the bike was sat covered up and didn't get damp or overly cold while i was away, and if I'm brutally honest there has been more than one occasion where it has sat unused for longer than a month anyway.
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Pete Roper
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Pete Roper

Posts : 6486
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Age : 62

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PostSubject: Re: pulling my hair out   pulling my hair out Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:48 am

The fact it's a YTX 16 is an issoe. You live somewhere cold, low voltage may of caused damage to the relay contacts. All of these bikes to the best of my knowledge specify a YTX 20.

Whether this is the source of the issue I don't know but it won't be helping.

The absence of a neutral light is odd but it may be a furphy if it doesn't start with the clutch in.

The fact it doesn't start if the starter is fed directly makes me think maybe it's blown it's fuel filter off but the timing is odd for that.

Good news is it is very, very unlikely to be either the ECU or the dash.
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Ian p
Carlotto
Carlotto
Ian p

Posts : 37
Join date : 2016-10-10
Age : 58

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PostSubject: Re: pulling my hair out   pulling my hair out Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:22 am

well I is a happy little Hector again, tis fixerated!!! bounce
it was Marks prompt about the neutral light that started the synapses closing so i went back out to Siberia and had a fiddle with my size tens on the gear lever and a fettle with the clutch lever and lo and behold she do start.

I think it was down to a sticky neutral switch coz as soon as that started giving me the green light it was all systems go.

now all i have to do is put a new headlight bulb in and maybe go for a ride tomorrow, if its not too cold and dark when i get home.

thanks to Pete and Mark for the quick responses, its that sort of positive attitude that restores the faith in human nature.

I am still waiting for someone to take the p#ss though Very Happy
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Ian p
Carlotto
Carlotto
Ian p

Posts : 37
Join date : 2016-10-10
Age : 58

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PostSubject: Re: pulling my hair out   pulling my hair out Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:29 am

hi again Pete,
when i bought the battery i thought it should have been a YTX20 but they only had a 16 in the local shop so it had to do. it has been working fine for near on 3 years now though so i suspect imminent failure, when it does go i shall put in the correct size one.

I guess i shall have to find a way of getting a new key as well, trouble is I dont have the user code to recode a new key, so am at a bit of a loss.

anyhoo as she is now working again I can put away the axe, matches, and can of lighter fluid and give her a cuddle
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beetle
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beetle

Posts : 6804
Join date : 2013-09-30

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PostSubject: Re: pulling my hair out   pulling my hair out Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:33 am


Consider the piss taken. Bloody neutral light should have been a dead giveaway, you pillock!  Razz

cheers




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Pete Roper
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Pete Roper

Posts : 6486
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Age : 62

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PostSubject: Re: pulling my hair out   pulling my hair out Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:42 am

Only one key is a problem. Have you tried the last five numbers of the VIN?

You can get keys cloned. The problem with that is the dash sees them as the 'Same' key meaning you can't change the user code. If you find the code is the last five numbers of the VIN you can then choose your own code and programme up to, ( I think?) six keys.

Pete
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tvboy
Grignapoco
Grignapoco
tvboy

Posts : 185
Join date : 2018-04-13
Age : 60

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PostSubject: Re: pulling my hair out   pulling my hair out Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:04 pm

Ian P,

Glad you got it figured out but I'm not clear on what the actual problem was. Are you saying the bike was in gear but neutral light was ON or bike was in neutral but light was OFF ?

thanks
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kiwi dave
Tiradritto
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kiwi dave

Posts : 359
Join date : 2014-04-23
Age : 72

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PostSubject: Re: pulling my hair out   pulling my hair out Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:57 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
The fact it's a YTX 16 is an issoe. You live somewhere cold, low voltage may of caused damage to the relay contacts. All of these bikes to the best of my knowledge specify a YTX 20.

I believe the original is an 18 amp/hour, but finding a replacement Yuasa might prove difficult.
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Pete Roper
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Pete Roper

Posts : 6486
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PostSubject: Re: pulling my hair out   pulling my hair out Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:11 pm

Readily available here Dave.
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Stubbie
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Stubbie

Posts : 149
Join date : 2017-07-05
Age : 61

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PostSubject: Re: pulling my hair out   pulling my hair out Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:42 pm

Ian P, I have a story about a bloke at my work, his 250, the kill switch and how he spent over 2 hours pulling his bike apart because it wouldn't start. It happens.
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bahamazoo
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bahamazoo

Posts : 964
Join date : 2015-08-09
Age : 55

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PostSubject: Re: pulling my hair out   pulling my hair out Icon_minitime1Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:10 pm

for baity breath, I always use...
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and as for the hair, this has pretty good reviews...
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its (usually) always the simple things....
good work super sleuth !!
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Ian p
Carlotto
Carlotto
Ian p

Posts : 37
Join date : 2016-10-10
Age : 58

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PostSubject: Re: pulling my hair out   pulling my hair out Icon_minitime1Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:49 pm

hi all,
apologies for the tardy response, i have been a bit preoccupied with work, having had a month off!
the problem appears to have been the sticky neutral light switch, the bike was in neutral but there was no green neutral light. hence the bike thought it was in gear so no starty.
i guess my thought process went along the lines of not starting no lights dash//ecu has crapped out, bugger,bugger,bugger,
then panic sets in and logic and reason flew out of the window.
if i had been less jet lagged i would have been better served liberally internally applying some of Pats "special mouthwash"the likelihood is though i would have drunk the hair tonic and rubbed Jack Daniels on my scalp.
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Red Leader
Carlotto
Carlotto
Red Leader

Posts : 43
Join date : 2017-04-24

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PostSubject: Re: pulling my hair out   pulling my hair out Icon_minitime1Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:26 am

Glad it's sorted, Ian!
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