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rick pope
Tanabuso
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rick pope

Posts : 57
Join date : 2019-08-17
Age : 65

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PostSubject: Starter Issue   Starter Issue Icon_minitime1Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:11 pm

Well, I'm slowly, and painfully learning about some of the nuances of Italian bikes. I recently swapped the stock handlebars for some from a Stelvio, to give my ancient back and shoulders some relief on longer rides. Never did it cross my mind that the switch gear, and associated mounting tabs, might be different between models. Poor dumb me.

I thought everything was fine, and took off for the maiden voyage this morning with my wife following on her Spyder (F3-S). I got down the road a couple miles to a stop sign, and thought I heard a strange noise. Sat there a moment, and chalked it up to my new hearing aids. Bad decision. Another mile and the bike quit running briefly, then restarted as I was coasting into a driveway. As I stopped, I could smell hot electrical components. I turned off the key, and looked around for evidence of smoke or melted insulation. Finding nothing, I tried to restart. Ahhh, the switch was stuck in the "start" position. I learned a long time ago, when something is amiss, look where you most recently worked.....

So, I trailered it home and took the button off the handlebar. Who'd have thought the locating nib would be on the bottom on a GRiSO, but 90 degrees off on a Stelvio? Certainly not this olde pharte, who's worked on lots of bikes over the years, but never a fine Italian steed such as this. I removed the offending nib, and started checking voltage. It seems I'm not getting voltage to the flat connector on the back of the solenoid. The hot wire to the solenoid shows battery voltage. So, does the solenoid back feed the circuit to the "start" button, or does the battery enegize the solenoid through a relay? Looking at the size of the switch wires and the wire to the solenoid (flat terminal), I'd guess the latter scenario.

My dealer has many manuals linked through his website, so I'm going to try to find a wiring diagram there. Meanwhile, any suggestions would be appreciated.
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rick pope
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rick pope

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PostSubject: Re: Starter Issue   Starter Issue Icon_minitime1Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:43 pm

Welllll, I searched the official "service station manual", and didn't find what I wanted. I did however, notice a starter relay somewhere near the fuses.

Back out to the garage, and on the way thought to myself, "Self, after putting the handlebar switch back in place, did you check the kill switch?" Ummm, no, I answered sheepishly. Went digging and never did find said relay, but while I was there, and I had my dvm at my side, I checked the fuses. Bingo. One was toasted.

Don'tcha just love a happy ending? Very Happy
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Richard
GRiSO Capo
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Richard

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PostSubject: Re: Starter Issue   Starter Issue Icon_minitime1Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:35 am

Rick which fuse was it ?
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rick pope
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rick pope

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PostSubject: Re: Starter Issue   Starter Issue Icon_minitime1Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:48 am

Ummm, the green one? There are two, both green, 30 amp. It was the one on the left, facing forward. I didn't see any markings indicating a particular circuit.
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
Oz1200Guzzi

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PostSubject: Re: Starter Issue   Starter Issue Icon_minitime1Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:03 pm

One feeds from the alternator, the other feeds "other" stuff and is connected to the battery.
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kiwi dave
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PostSubject: Re: Starter Issue   Starter Issue Icon_minitime1Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:19 am

rick pope wrote:

My dealer has many manuals linked through his website, so I'm going to try to find a wiring diagram there.  Meanwhile, any suggestions would be appreciated.

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http://www.guzzigander.com
GHTE
Nibbio
Nibbio
GHTE

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PostSubject: Re: Starter Issue   Starter Issue Icon_minitime1Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:40 pm

Best way to know you bike, work through the issues yourself rather than outsourcing.
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rick pope
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rick pope

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PostSubject: Re: Starter Issue   Starter Issue Icon_minitime1Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:24 pm

Update: Evrything works as designed now, except....sometimes the starter keeps cranking while the bendix seems to drop out and try to re-engage. It seems perhaps the episode of prolonged current might have burned the contacts in the solenoid. Can they be removed and refurbished? Looks to be an easy job, one I prefer to do in my garage rather in a parking lot 200 miles from home.
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Kiwi_Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Starter Issue   Starter Issue Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:48 am

rick pope wrote:
Update:   Evrything works as designed now, except....sometimes the starter keeps cranking while the bendix seems to drop out and try to re-engage.  It seems perhaps the episode of prolonged current might have burned the contacts in the solenoid.  Can they be removed and refurbished?  Looks to be an easy job, one I prefer to do in my garage rather in a parking lot 200 miles from home.

I wonder if this could be caused by water in the RH switch, try a little WD40

I say that because the button works by pulling the ECU input 28 to chassis
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Your 2016 may have an additional Start Maintenance relay as below
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I may be wrong but I suspect the second relay(3) was added to try and solve Startus Interruptus, I would be tempted to pull it out and do a proper fix

BTW the starter (24) as shown is complete nonsense.
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rick pope
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rick pope

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PostSubject: Re: Starter Issue   Starter Issue Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:57 am

No water in switch. This started immediately after the button being jammed for several minutes. Engine running, ear plugs in, I didn't hear it.
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Kiwi_Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Starter Issue   Starter Issue Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:23 pm

rick pope wrote:
Update:   Evrything works as designed now, except....sometimes the starter keeps cranking while the bendix seems to drop out and try to re-engage.  It seems perhaps the episode of prolonged current might have burned the contacts in the solenoid.  Can they be removed and refurbished?  Looks to be an easy job, one I prefer to do in my garage rather in a parking lot 200 miles from home.

Yes, just unbolt it from the starter.
It might also be the solenoid sticking in the tube it slides in.
A sure fix would be to purchase a new solenoid.
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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Oz1200Guzzi

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PostSubject: Re: Starter Issue   Starter Issue Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:55 pm

Clean the solenoid, do not lubricate it, and see how that goes. There is a ECU control that tries to start (engages the starter) and then stops, if it does not start within a certain amount of revolutions. Are you experiencing this?
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Kiwi_Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Starter Issue   Starter Issue Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:57 pm

As Tony says if you just press start for an instant the ECU will hold the start relay for a second or two

On the other hand if you have a GRiSO with the Startup Maintenance Relay it will keep cranking as long as you hold the button.
I think the latter relay was added in a futile attempt to fix Startup Interuptus, personally if I had this additional relay I would take it out and use it for a spare.
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rick pope
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rick pope

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PostSubject: Re: Starter Issue   Starter Issue Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:10 pm

Consensus here at a CBX rally is the starter is toast. Bendix was held in while riding due to the starter button being stuck. Unfortunately, I have a Chinese starter, not the Bosch. Found one in Denver, CO for $100 more than the dealer. but the dealer won't have one for a couple weeks. I have one being overnighted. so I can ride late tomorrow.
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rick pope
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rick pope

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PostSubject: Re: Starter Issue   Starter Issue Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:56 pm

Epilogue..... Bendix on the chinese starter was toast. Shaft is blue and bearing is sloppy. Fuse was likely blown because with the bendix engaged, at over 3k rpm, the starter became a generator, putting out unregulated current.

My dealer didn't have a starter, and wouldn't have for 3 weeks, but called me back and said a place in Denver, CO had them. Had one over nighted and fixed the issue for a measly sum of $350 usd.
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Kiwi_Roy
Biondino
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PostSubject: Re: Starter Issue   Starter Issue Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:24 am

What, the cheap Chinese knock off was no good, how could that be?
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rick pope
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rick pope

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PostSubject: Re: Starter Issue   Starter Issue Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:12 pm

Chinese starter wouldn't hold up to being engaged and going down the road at 40 mph.  How many rpm do you think that bendix was spinning?

I'l dump half the blame in my lap, for not noticing the locator pin being different between GRiSO and Stelvio, but the other half goes to MG for nor having the same design across their product line.  Just like the GRiSO has the turn signal switch reversed with the horn button, compared to every other bike I've ridden.
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