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 Sudden starting issues after winter storage

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MK1004
Squinternotto
Squinternotto
MK1004

Posts : 3
Join date : 2019-12-28

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PostSubject: Sudden starting issues after winter storage   Sudden starting issues after winter storage Icon_minitime1Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:30 am

Hello

I've seem to run across a problem with my 2006 850 GRiSO. It's been sitting in storage since october with the battery removed and charged. Needless to say it ran fine before storing it. Now though, when I went to fit my Ledperf LED headlight and tried to start the bike, it would at first take really long to fire up, and when it did it sounded awful, spat flames from the exhaust and cut out in about 3-5 seconds. So I removed the battery again, left it charging again overnight and today it won't even turn over. Just a loud clunck from the starter, after which the display goes blank for a second or two. Dispite the engine not cranking, the fuel pump is massively overfueling the engine, fuel is flowing out of the tube under the engine and also slightly dripping from the throttle bodies:

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The amount of fuel coming out from this tube made the low fuel light come on pretty quickly



CLUNCK! followed by the fuel pump still delivering fuel to the system

So what I've done so far? Obviously cleaned all the battery terminals, they were like new though. Checked the fuses, removed the starter motor and tested it – it works fine unless on the bike. Could it somehow be linked with the LED headlight installation, boubtful? The battery is a Yuasa unit, showing 12.5V standing volts. Also tried once to crank it with a battery booster connected, still wouldn't turn over. After todays hassle I drained the oil and as suspected, half of the content coming out was fuel.

Any help and ideas are welcome here, I know the the not cranking issue is rather common in MG's.
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Pete Roper
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
Pete Roper

Posts : 6605
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 62

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PostSubject: Re: Sudden starting issues after winter storage   Sudden starting issues after winter storage Icon_minitime1Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:47 pm

The fuel everywhere issue is really odd as unlike a machine with carburettors there is no needle and seat to leak. The only leak point is the injectors and they need to be triggered to deliver fuel. It is possible you had a dribbly injector and I suppose over a very long period of time it might conceivably leaked enough to flood the engine and airbox but I've never heard of such a thing personally.

Your battery is definitely buggered though so start with some basics and a new battery.

With a new battery in disconnect the coils and injectors. Remove the outer plugs. Now spin the motor for a few seconds and see if fuel is expelled from the cylinders. If it is crank it until it stops squirting out!

Now replace the oil filter and engine oil, drain the tank, invert it and remove the pump to check all the hoses. Now would be a good time to replace the short hose with a new length of fully submersible hose.

Reinstall the pump and add four or five litres of fuel. Install the plugs, reconnect the injectors and see what happens. What worries me most is if the motor had flooded during storage it may of hydraulic locked when you first spun it up and bent a connecting rod.

Pete
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MK1004
Squinternotto
Squinternotto
MK1004

Posts : 3
Join date : 2019-12-28

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PostSubject: Re: Sudden starting issues after winter storage   Sudden starting issues after winter storage Icon_minitime1Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:05 pm

Starter works fine at the moment after removing the spark plugs and pushing out the huge amount of fuel in them. The bike has some plug-in mapping computer installed with 2 black wires going to battery +terminal. I removed the plugs and with the ignition on, this is how bad the overfueling is with the ignition on and the 2 wires connected to + terminal:





when the cylinders are drained with spark plugs of, after reinstalling the plugs and leaving the 2 black wires uninstalled, it would start, but only to die in a few seconds:
.

I'm a bit clueless as it worked perfectly prior to storage. It's cold here at the moment, around -2 degrees C, might this contribute somehow?. I drained the old oil tonight and sure enough most of what came out was fuel. Maybe a stuck injector altogether?
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GuzziSteve
Fra Cristoforo
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GuzziSteve

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PostSubject: Re: Sudden starting issues after winter storage   Sudden starting issues after winter storage Icon_minitime1Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:46 pm

I would see what happens w/fuel pump electric disconnected and starting. I never seen any issue like that.
Don't see how dribbley injectors could put out that much fuel. Pull the tank & airbox & find issue I would think. Also check fuel pressure.
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
Oz1200Guzzi

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PostSubject: Re: Sudden starting issues after winter storage   Sudden starting issues after winter storage Icon_minitime1Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:06 pm

No fuel pressure is what I think is happening, and why the bike stalls after running for only 1 second. Time to disassemble and find what the problem really is.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Sudden starting issues after winter storage   Sudden starting issues after winter storage Icon_minitime1Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:36 pm

GuzziSteve wrote:
I would see what happens w/fuel pump electric disconnected and starting. I never seen any issue like that.
Don't see how dribbley injectors could put out that much fuel. Pull the tank & airbox & find issue I would think. Also check fuel pressure.

Likewise. There's something really odd going on here.

Have you pulled the fuel pump yet?

Oh, and where do those wires go to? Can you show us a picture of this box and where else is it plugged into the loom?
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Kiwi_Roy
Tiradritto
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Kiwi_Roy

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PostSubject: Re: Sudden starting issues after winter storage   Sudden starting issues after winter storage Icon_minitime1Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:48 pm

Is it possible you disconnected a fuel hose and forgot to reconnect it?
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Pete Roper
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Pete Roper

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PostSubject: Re: Sudden starting issues after winter storage   Sudden starting issues after winter storage Icon_minitime1Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:21 pm

I'm thinking blown off fuel hose in the tank maybe Roy but if that happens it might fire up for one or two revolutions but from the video it seems like a few hundred! It also doesn't explain how all that raw fuel is getting past the injectors???
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MK1004
Squinternotto
Squinternotto
MK1004

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Join date : 2019-12-28

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PostSubject: Re: Sudden starting issues after winter storage   Sudden starting issues after winter storage Icon_minitime1Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:02 am

Guys, I'm glad to say the bike runs fine now....although I'm not sure why. I disconnected the injectors overnight, in the morning cranked the engine for a bit with spark plugs removed. After seeing a normal mist of fuel coming out from the cylinders, reinstalled the plugs and it pretty much fired right up. I kept it running for a few minutes, changed the oil and filter again(Eni I-Ride Racing 10w60) restarted the engine and let it warm up nicely. It runs as good as ever....maybe it was the italian electronics disliking the cold weather, it was sub-zero for the past few days and pretty warm today.

The map box itself looks like this:

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There some adjustability apparently to it, although the bike runs fine with it disconnected, there is a noticeable sound and mpg difference with it connected though. I don't have much belief in plug-in maps so I've kept it disconnected mostly.



A short video I made of the start up


All in all I don't know what to make of this other than a lesson not to touch the bike with sub-zero temp outside. Glad it didn't hydrolock and damage the engine. scratch
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Pete Roper
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Pete Roper

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PostSubject: Re: Sudden starting issues after winter storage   Sudden starting issues after winter storage Icon_minitime1Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:23 am

Piss that widget off right now.
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GuzziSteve
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo
GuzziSteve

Posts : 275
Join date : 2016-04-14

Sudden starting issues after winter storage Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sudden starting issues after winter storage   Sudden starting issues after winter storage Icon_minitime1Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:06 am

Blame it on the 'spoofer', temp or bar pressure junk.
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