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 Back wheel nearly off while riding

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Camphill
Carlotto
Carlotto
Camphill

Posts : 27
Join date : 2019-08-23

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PostSubject: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:50 am

Hi There
Thought it best to post, that I had a close one yesterday with my back wheel .
I am still waiting for parts to rollerize my 11 GRiSO  parts on back order since November ,so not riding the bike much , only taking it out for the occasional dustoff . Yesterday got about 1km from the house noticed a bit of rear wheel weave .. went about 500mtrs to next roundabout  to enter the motorway  .. slowed right down and a horrible oscillation came  through the bike . Pulled over expecting a flat .... all good.
3 inchs of lateral  play in the back wheel...WTF... wheel just about hanging on to the CARC. Popped the cover
All four bolts hand loose and nearly out.!
Lucky Lucky me that i didn't hit the motorway

looking through the posts I se its not the first time this has happened ..2014
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Bike back to the paddock stand all good no damage to the threads ... Id say the cone shaped spacers saved the threads

No more assumptions ....would be my lesson! No
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Papa Lazarou
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
Papa Lazarou

Posts : 692
Join date : 2014-10-07
Age : 66

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:04 am

close call and time for new underwear.
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Camphill
Carlotto
Carlotto
Camphill

Posts : 27
Join date : 2019-08-23

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:09 am

I'll Try a Nailbrush on the jocks first
Definitely not to be pondered on the what's if's
Was a lucky escape..
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Steak
L'Innominato
L'Innominato
Steak

Posts : 2647
Join date : 2013-05-28
Age : 55

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:17 am

I'm sure Street will pop in here to reinforce the call to safety wire those lug nuts. We had a fellow Seattle Guzzisti on a Norge (CARC) who lost his rear wheel on Interstate 90 (onramp or otherwise.)

Pete drilled his nutz post haste and has safety wired them ever since.

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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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Camphill
Carlotto
Carlotto
Camphill

Posts : 27
Join date : 2019-08-23

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:19 pm

Is there an image available of the Nutz wired to follow on how its done
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Steak
L'Innominato
L'Innominato
Steak

Posts : 2647
Join date : 2013-05-28
Age : 55

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:39 pm

I'm sure that Street (Pete) will be along before long to respond, or you can PM/Email him directly:

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Here's another option: Easy Peasy

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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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Street
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
Street

Posts : 2598
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 61

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:37 pm

Hey, Camphill,

Yikes, that's a scary situation. As Steak mentioned, one of our local Guzzisti lost the rear wheel on his Norge and it took him down with his wife on the back. Fortunately their injuries weren't too severe, but needless to say, they don't want to repeat that incident. When I did my rear end service I took the opportunity to drill and lockwire my hub bolts. I sleep better at night knowing that's one less thing to worry about.

Pete (Street)

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I happen to have a wire twister that I bought years ago at Boeing Surplus - finally found a use for it after all this time.

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Here's a good video of a professional jet engine mechanic tying lockwire.

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waterbottle
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
waterbottle

Posts : 1780
Join date : 2015-02-02
Age : 59

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:19 am

Well done Street Thumbs Up I lockwired the race GRiSO's rear wheel bolts a while back after finding all bolts loose while fitting some new tyres. Its cheap peace of mind
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Camphill
Carlotto
Carlotto
Camphill

Posts : 27
Join date : 2019-08-23

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:15 am

Thanks for the image and Link . I will have another look at the bolts before I wire them to be sure they are not stretched .
There was no indication at all that anything was off before those couple of KMs of driving so it may have come undone quickly..?
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wardest
Grignapoco
Grignapoco
wardest

Posts : 183
Join date : 2014-04-30
Age : 51

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:06 pm

Changed my first back tyre
All but 1 bolt had loosened off to less than 30 ft pound after being check tightened after reading the original thread at around 2000 kms. Lock wire looks the best solution.

While you are at it check the bolt that holds your side stand on. cheers
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Camphill
Carlotto
Carlotto
Camphill

Posts : 27
Join date : 2019-08-23

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:23 am

Following up on the Bolt,( with time to think about it )   affraid  

I tightened the bolts and ran the bike for 20 mins to warm the oils in the gearbox and shaft so I could change the oil in both today. Torque wrench in hand I was surprised that the came undone too easily !!
Looking  closer at them they are wanked with one of them 5 mm longer than the rest .. as ye can see in the pics .. three were 70.6mm   and one was 75.6 But all the threads look stretched ,Or is it the case that  someone dogged them way  beyond the 110NM spec..and does this mean that the threads inside the unit will be FUBAR too

Also can anyone tell me if these are the correct length as they only seem to go into the CARC unit about 4/5 mm and the threads inside the unit go in about 15mm   ..See images
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Cheers
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beetle
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
beetle

Posts : 7757
Join date : 2013-09-30

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:43 pm


Spec is 65mm

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Camphill
Carlotto
Carlotto
Camphill

Posts : 27
Join date : 2019-08-23

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:00 pm

Cheers Beetle for the prompt reply...but it only gives about 5mm of grab ...with about 10mm left unused on the threads inside the CARC..
Is this right?

..
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beetle
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
beetle

Posts : 7757
Join date : 2013-09-30

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:37 pm


Hmm. I've never checked. Presume it must be right. Curiosity makes me want to check...


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Camphill
Carlotto
Carlotto
Camphill

Posts : 27
Join date : 2019-08-23

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:41 pm

The bolts in the wheel image shows all the purchase of the bolts as my fingers are pushing them all the way through ...it doesn't look enough to me for the load
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Guzzi Cat
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
Guzzi Cat

Posts : 330
Join date : 2014-09-02

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:14 pm

Camphill, the threads on your bolts look pretty gammy to me and seems like someone went nuts with a big bad ass air gun.

Maybe I am just lucky, but I have never had a bolt loosen on the GRiSO or Stelvio (YET) always fit my own wheels and torque them dry without any lube.

I am not sure about the 5 mm of grab (seems a bit on the stingy side) but like Beetle May have to check!

I would order some new bolts for peace of mind,
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sideshowbob
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
sideshowbob

Posts : 765
Join date : 2017-08-06
Age : 65

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:40 pm

Bored, so I checked. As Mark stated 65mm, mine has about 11mm of engagement.
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beetle
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
beetle

Posts : 7757
Join date : 2013-09-30

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:26 pm


I checked mine too. I measured 6.45mm of engagement. I used a Tony Mowbray Wheel Alignment Pin™.
I screwed the pin into as far as it would go.

Measured length of alignment pin protruding was 7.96mm.

Alignment pin total length = 68.98
Wheel bolt (including conical bush) shank + thread = 54.57

68.98 - 54.57 - 7.96 = 6.45

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sideshowbob
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
sideshowbob

Posts : 765
Join date : 2017-08-06
Age : 65

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:30 pm

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I just smeared some Prussian blue on the end of the threads and let it mark its progress.
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Camphill
Carlotto
Carlotto
Camphill

Posts : 27
Join date : 2019-08-23

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:18 am

Thanks to all for the reply's and photos
Guzzicat yes definitely new bolts ... The ones that came with the bike appear to be different to Beetle's ,10 mm shorter and I assume that they are the same spec Brembo wheels (look the same)so
I only have about 6,5mm or about 4 threads of engagement with the Carc unit. Is that enough with all that thump and lash going on?
They get tight very soon after threading so it would be easy to overdo it and stretch the bolts .





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beetle
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
beetle

Posts : 7757
Join date : 2013-09-30

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:36 am


Those bolts are too short. Replace them.

I can't quite get my head around why I measured approximately the same amount of engagement with mine, when yours are 10mm too short?

I've had 50K kms on mine without any issue, so I'm not worried. Just curious.



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Camphill
Carlotto
Carlotto
Camphill

Posts : 27
Join date : 2019-08-23

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:03 am

New bolts arrived from the UK and solved this one for me . The  bolts that came in the bike are definitely not the spec bolts . They are too short and also a finer thread that they should be . Thankfully they were of a softer steel that that  inside the CARC so stretched out until they got max engagement at only 5mm  in and then wrung out .
These were hardly in there from day one ... ? The bike has 9000 miles on it but could be on its first tyre still. There's plenty of thread on it .
Not having a Guzzi Dealer in the country is a more likely cause ...I could be just unlucky/lucky  as it could just be the work of a Dipshit
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Guzzi Cat
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
Guzzi Cat

Posts : 330
Join date : 2014-09-02

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:14 pm

Camphill wrote:
Not having a Guzzi Dealer in the country is a more likely cause ...I could be just unlucky/lucky  as it could just be the work of a Dipshit

It’s one thing for the bolts to come loose but it’s unforgivable that some ”dipshit” would give a bike with the wrong wheel bolts to another person. Lucky that you found out in time, I would check the front wheel also! Sometimes your better off having to do the work yourself.

Mega Bikes in Dublin are now selling new Guzzis and AMI / Overlanders in Gorey but I don’t think they are official guzzi dealers.
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Camphill
Carlotto
Carlotto
Camphill

Posts : 27
Join date : 2019-08-23

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PostSubject: Re: Back wheel nearly off while riding    Back wheel nearly off while riding  Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:12 am

Definitely...
Rollercam kit finally on the way from Holland
I'd say the virus in Italy will make it even harder to get it now .
Back order since November

Next job..
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