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 Procedure to program new dash

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Bulldog9
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PostSubject: Procedure to program new dash   Procedure to program new dash Icon_minitime1Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:23 pm

Does anyone have or know the procedure for programming a new dash into a GRiSO or Breva?

I know there is a service code and user code, but unsure of the procedure and what to do to prep.

I'd be installing a new dash, and know the service code and key code, but not sure of the procedure. This isn't for my GRiSO, but for an 08 1200 Sport. I know the GRiSO and Breva have a common dash/ecu setup.

I'll be picking up a well loved and well used 1200 Sport (70K miles) soon, and for a pittance. It is on its second dash. He kept the original dash that died at 60K miles (LCD failure) and is coming with sale, but I want to be prepped if the second dash (Breva 1100). It works, but has a few glitches, no neutral light, no left turn signal. Owner is a long time Guzzi guy, and put 70K miles on the bike, with meticulous service records, and looks as clean as my much loved GRiSO. I've always admired the 1200 Sport. It's a proper black one and will fit right in the garage.

In a former life, I earned a degree in industrial electronics, and have a knack for electronics work.

Want to get my head around the issue. Obviously I need the new dash code, but how do you mate the existing keys to the new dash? ANy other things to look for? Is it as simple as changing the key code? As long as you have both keys you are GTG? I'm getting such a good deal, I may just grab a new dash and put it in after messing around with the original a bit.



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kiwi dave
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PostSubject: Re: Procedure to program new dash   Procedure to program new dash Icon_minitime1Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:18 pm

It's fairly straight forward, you need the diagnosis code (36421) and the user code (since it is new, it will be 00000).

The workshop manual explains the procedure.

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Procedure to program new dash   Procedure to program new dash Icon_minitime1Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:44 pm

I don't think you even need the service code.

When you first turn it on it will do its sweep and then the message 'Don't forget to insert your user code' will appear at the bottom of the das for fifteen seconds or so and then go out. Everything should work but until you insert a user code you will get that message every start up.

To insert a code just go into the menu and scroll down until you come to 'Change the code'. Hold the button or toggle down and it will show five underscores on the screen, the first one will be flashing.

Select your numeral either by rapid presses of the button if it's a button set up or quick flicks sideways of the toggle if it's a toggle type. When the numeral you want is exhibited hold the button down or press the toggle in and the next underscore will start to flash.

Repeat the process four more times until you have your five figure code inserted and on storing the last numeral the dash will revert back to the main menu.

Make sure you know that code. Write it down or use five numerals you'll not forget! I use the first five numerals of my birthday simply because I won't forget them.

If you want to change the code you can either go into the 'Change the code' menu again and you'll be asked to enter the current code after which you can put in a new one OR, as long as you have two keys you can use the 'Code Recovery' feature.

Using the later once you have chosen it and held the button or toggle down it will say 'Insert second key' and begin a thirty second countdown. Turn off and remove the key and insert the spare. The dash will recognise it and take you to the 'Insert new code' screen.

The assumption is that if you have two keys you aren't a robber so it lets you change the code.
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moto
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PostSubject: Re: Procedure to program new dash   Procedure to program new dash Icon_minitime1Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:08 am

Quote :
In a former life, I earned a degree in industrial electronics, and have a knack for electronics work.
The turn signal is failing because the circuitry is in a lower corner of the PCB, where condensation collects.

If you are comfortable with electronics, you should consider disassembling the new dash and adding a conformal coating to the PCB. The Breva/Sport dash looks easier to do than the GRiSO's. I didn't see the same need to desolder and then resolder some delicate conductors. Make sure not to coat the air pressure sensor. Send me a PM and I'll find a photo of that. I coated my GRiSO's dash a few years ago.

Moto
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Procedure to program new dash   Procedure to program new dash Icon_minitime1Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:15 pm

It's also the pin out is different I believe. I tried a Breva dash on a sport once many years ago, it had the same problems.
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moto
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PostSubject: Re: Procedure to program new dash   Procedure to program new dash Icon_minitime1Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:34 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
It's also the pin out is different I believe. I tried a Breva dash on a sport once many years ago, it had the same problems.

Yes, I think I remember that. I also do remember seeing a photo of corrosion in the left lower corner of the PCB of a Breva with a turn signal problem. I looked at quite of lot of such photos for a while.
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Bulldog9
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PostSubject: Re: Procedure to program new dash   Procedure to program new dash Icon_minitime1Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:38 am

Pete Roper wrote:
I don't think you even need the service code.

When you first turn it on it will do its sweep and then the message 'Don't forget to insert your user code' will appear at the bottom of the das for fifteen seconds or so and then go out. Everything should work but until you insert a user code you will get that message every start up.

To insert a code just go into the menu and scroll down until you come to 'Change the code'. Hold the button or toggle down and it will show five underscores on the screen, the first one will be flashing.

Select your numeral either by rapid presses of the button if it's a button set up or quick flicks sideways of the toggle if it's a toggle type. When the numeral you want is exhibited hold the button down or press the toggle in and the next underscore will start to flash.

Repeat the process four more times until you have your five figure code inserted and on storing the last numeral the dash will revert back to the main menu.

Make sure you know that code. Write it down or use five numerals you'll not forget! I use the first five numerals of my birthday simply because I won't forget them.

If you want to change the code you can either go into the 'Change the code' menu again and you'll be asked to enter the current code after which you can put in a new one OR, as long as you have two keys you can use the 'Code Recovery' feature.

Using the later once you have chosen it and held the button or toggle down it will say 'Insert second key' and begin a thirty second countdown. Turn off and remove the key and insert the spare. The dash will recognise it and take you to the 'Insert new code' screen.

The assumption is that if you have two keys you aren't a robber so it lets you change the code.

Thanks Pete (and all)

How does this relate to the 'key code' ? Doesn't the dash/immobilizer have to communicate with the keys? If the keys are set to say the diag code (my practice) will they have to be reset, or is the whole code thing just in the dash? Sorry for the dumbo questions.
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moto
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PostSubject: Re: Procedure to program new dash   Procedure to program new dash Icon_minitime1Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:56 pm

The dash contains an EEPROM chip that holds the last key code that the factory or an owner successfully entered and set. It also holds the ID numbers encoded on the two physical keys that were registered by the factory or an owner via an option in the Diagnostics menu. It compares these three numbers appropriately with any key code or physical keys you might later present. If you have the required matches it permits you to change the code or register new keys. (It doesn't write any data onto the physical keys.)

You can see a readout of stored values in a sample EEPROM here:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

That is page five of a fascinating exploration of a simpler version of our Digitek (Italia, not Australia) dash, done by the great Techrat1 back in 2009.

Moto

P.S. Techrat1 found that the dash can store ID numbers for up to four keys. Those who worry too much about losing one of their keys might consider trying to register one or two more. I don't know if the software allows this, or if it would then accept any two of the registered keys as proof of ownership, but I expect it would, and it would be easy to find out whether it would by presenting a third key. As Pete described, though, two keys are only needed when the key code has been forgotten.
M.

(Edited for clarity and to add the postscript.)
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Procedure to program new dash   Procedure to program new dash Icon_minitime1Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:54 pm

The software allows you to store up to six keys! I have four stored so needless to say I've never lost or broken one.
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Bulldog9
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PostSubject: Re: Procedure to program new dash   Procedure to program new dash Icon_minitime1Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:05 am

Thanks All,

So what I am expecting on installing a new dash is for the bike to start and run on the keys as they are, and to be presented with the message to set the key code as it does on a new bike. I will not have to do anything in particular to match the key to the dash before I can start and run the bike.

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moto
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PostSubject: Re: Procedure to program new dash   Procedure to program new dash Icon_minitime1Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:20 pm

Before trying to answer the wrong question, let me ask,

1) Are you asking about installing a brand new dash, or a used one that is new to you?
2) When you refer to "the keys as they are," do you mean the keys that you have been using with your soon-to-be previous dash?
3) Will your "new" dash come without any matched key of its own?
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Bulldog9
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PostSubject: Re: Procedure to program new dash   Procedure to program new dash Icon_minitime1Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:27 pm

Before trying to answer the wrong question, let me ask,

1) Are you asking about installing a brand new dash, or a used one that is new to you? Brand New

2) When you refer to "the keys as they are," do you mean the keys that you have been using with your soon-to-be previous dash? Yes, the two keys currently in use, current code is the same as the service code

3) Will your "new" dash come without any matched key of its own? Is just the dash

I am planning on sending the old original dash (not in the bike) to Carmo with the New Dash to be treated and they will copy the mileage and settings over to it.  This may help eliminate issues. **This is all theoretical, I dont have the bike or dash at this point, will pick it up mid July, just want to be set.
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moto
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PostSubject: Re: Procedure to program new dash   Procedure to program new dash Icon_minitime1Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:12 pm

Thanks for the clarification. My answer leads me to a short description of what's needed to do various things associated with your keys:

[EDIT. I think I should have called the 5-digit user-chosen code something besides "key code" in my original post, since it is not associated with the physical keys at all. It is really a passcode for access to restricted dash settings, so I have revised this post to call it that, hoping to make my explanations clearer. The GRiSO owner's manual, and the dash itself, just call it "the code," which leaves room for confusion with the service code, namely 12425 for the GRiSO or 36421 for the 1200 Sport. Others call the user-chosen code the "user code," but I found it confusing to write about a "user code" that the dash knows and a particular user may not.]

I will now describe six states that one may be in with respect to any particular dash, and what can be done in those situations. I call a physical key "registered" if that dash already knows the key's ID number (which will be transmitted to the dash when the key is inserted). I call a passcode "known" if the user knows the value of the passcode that is currently recorded inside the dash.

States and capabilities:

1) Exactly one registered key, unknown passcode  

The motorcycle can be ridden away, but the passcode cannot be changed and new keys cannot be registered.

2) Exactly one registered key, known passcode

The passcode can be changed and new keys can be registered.

3) Two or more registered keys, unknown passcode

The passcode can be retrieved, and then state (2) will apply, meaning you can also change the passcode and/or register new keys.

4) One or more unregistered keys, known passcode

This would be your described situation, since new dashes have passcode 00000, but have not registered your keys from the previous dashboard. An unregistered key cannot be used directly to start the motorcycle. However, on inserting an unregistered key, the dash asks you to "enter the code," by which it means the passcode it has recorded (here, 00000). Doing that, you can then proceed to the Diagnosis option under the Menu, where you will be prompted for the service code. Finally, choose the last option of the Diagnosis menu, for memorizing new keys. Here you will be asked to "enter the code", again meaning the internally-recorded passcode (00000). Do that, and the dash will give you prompts for inserting new keys to register.

5) One or more unregistered keys, unknown passcode

There is nothing to be done short of buying a new dash. Since this will put you in state 4, with known passcode 00000, you can register your old keys with the new dash and reset the passcode.

6) Two or more registered keys, known passcode

This is the state you should always try to be in. You can get to state (6) from states (2) through (4), but not from (1) or (5) unless a new dash is obtained with two registered keys or a known passcode. In this state you can easily reset a forgotten passcode or program an additional key if you lose one.


I just tried the procedure described under state (4) by unregistering one of my keys and proceeding to use it to turn on the ignition. The procedure worked as I described, and is what you would use to solve your problem. (After performing it, both your new and old dashes will accept the same keys, so long as you use the appropriate passcode for each dash.)

By the way, you should make a mental note that the physical keys do not have any record of your five-digit passcode. The only data the keys contain is a (hopefully) unique ID number. The dash itself remembers one passcode and two or more key IDs, always reflecting whatever was last entered into it.

Moto
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PostSubject: Re: Procedure to program new dash   Procedure to program new dash Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:46 am

Thanks Moto, will try to digest this and report back on results when I do the work.
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PostSubject: Re: Procedure to program new dash   Procedure to program new dash Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:35 pm

Step-by-step, using my keys and dash. (But see my next post.)

1. Insert your old (unmemorized/unregistered) key, and type in the passcode/user code, 00000, on this special screen:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

2. See the usual screen, which will display a reminder to set the user code, and this temporary Service warning.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

3. Select the Diagnosis option in the main Menu:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

4. Insert the Service Code when prompted:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

5. Select the Change Keys option in the Diagnosis menu:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

6. Enter the passcode/user code, 00000:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

7. See repeated prompts to enter keys to be memorized/registered. Here is the prompt for the second key:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

8. Wait for the last prompt to time out after 20 seconds.
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moto
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PostSubject: Re: Procedure to program new dash   Procedure to program new dash Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:45 pm

(EDITED) Probably the above will work for you because you won't be changing the physical lock cylinder that accepts your old keys.

I had worried for a moment that the electronics would require you to have the correct machined cuts on your keys, but now suppose that this would only involve the physical cylinder, not anything electronic. There is no storage location to hold information about the machined cut of keys in the EEPROM that Techrat1 investigated.

I imagine, but don't know, that keys are individually machined for particular lock cylinders.

Moto
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PostSubject: Re: Procedure to program new dash   Procedure to program new dash Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:08 am

*UPDATE*

Installed the New Dash today to see how things would work, and whallah......... Booted right up (In Italian of course)
Set to English and other parameters, time, etc, and all works well. No issues with the keys. This is likely because the keys were set to the code for the 1200 Sport.  Confirmed all lights and functions, and all is working well. The LCD panel crapped out on the original, but all the other parts worked. The PO installed a dash from a Breva 1100, which had marginal functionality. Dim LCD, no highbeam, neutral, side stand or right TS lights. Now all works. I have a 2008 1200 Sport with 0 Miles ;-)

I did a fly and ride Saturday to get the bike, only a little over 400 miles but was tons of fun though with a wee bit of drama. The bike felt like an old friend. Where the GRiSO is sharp edged and uber responsive, the 1200 Sport (like the Norge) is all sweet and comfort. Some complain it is top heavy or poor at slow speeds, but for whatever reason, I find it just about perfect.

Am in the midst of a refresh so will be a while until I start it, have it all torn down for a deep clean, bulb plugs, fluid, filter changes, valve adjust, Beetle Map, etc. The bike had 77K miles on the stock map. Isnt bad, but has too much decel pop for my likes. Also has never had Guzzi Diag hookup. I'll be checking TB balance and such as well. I pulled the evap system out, the PO had just capped the bleeds. I plan to connect them with a vaccum hose. Worked well on my Norge.

Big question is HOW to keep moisture out of the new unit. It is one of the 'later' models that is supposedly better sealed, but I am open to suggestions short of pulling the thing open. I may run a line of electrical tape on the top half of the unit just to discourage any possible water from creeping in on the upper and side seams, but keeping the bottom stock. WWS.

Here are some pics of the Journey. Bill (gentleman he is) rode out 1/2 way to my delivery point, and we rode back to his place, then home on Sunday.  Looking forward to many fine miles.  

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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PostSubject: Re: Procedure to program new dash   Procedure to program new dash Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:11 am

If it's to prevent the usual condensation due to humidity in storage & external temperature/humidity when riding (I never get problems with rain getting in the dash no matter how wet outside); I'd just stick a car humidifier in a bag over top of dash whenever it's stored.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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moto
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PostSubject: Re: Procedure to program new dash   Procedure to program new dash Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:14 pm

I agree with Paul's suggestion of a (de)humidifier in a bag over the dash. I did plumb an external desiccator for my GRiSO, but the dash support bracket had two mysterious ducts in just the right locations for the tubing, which I doubt yours would have. It was still a lot of work.

Moto
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