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 Startus Inturuptus Question

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lcjohnny
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lcjohnny

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Age : 65

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PostSubject: Re: Startus Inturuptus Question   Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:01 pm

Hi Roy
Which relay do you think passes most power?

I have run a 44/0.30 strand wire from the battery to the relay and another from the starter. There are two 28/0.30 strand pig tails to feed the other two terminals taking orange and yellow wires.

My question is, in your opinion which relay would benefit most from the 44 strand feed and return?
The Start up relay or the Maintenance relay?

Btw the maintenance relay showed most discolouration and oxidisation on the blades so i think that was hotter and therefore taking most watts

Thanks


Last edited by lcjohnny on Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:53 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : cant spell for toffee)
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Kiwi_Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Inturuptus Question   Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:37 pm

In theory they both share the load however one relay might have slightly more wire in circuit, I have never seen the way it's physically wired.
The Start relay closes first, followed closely by the maintenance relay.
It's possible for the start relay to drop out if the ECU sees something wrong.
If you take your finger off the start button and the engine continues to crank, that's all the Start relay because the maintenance relay will drop out.
I will attach a sketch I did for a Norge owner.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Either way any one of the relays will take the full current easily, I don't have the specs on hand but the sort of relays are typically rated for 60 - 100 Amps inrush, the cranking current through the relay is around 10 Amps.
When you get it all finished please try starting without the Maintenance relay in place and get back to me. I'm not convinced the Maintenance relay is required once you fix the weak yellow feed, the 1100 GRiSO has only one, it has a direct feed to the start relay similar to what you have just done. The only reason you would need it is if the factory messed with the ECU software to make it drop the start relay out.

I had to look up 44/030, you certainly won't have any problems with that 28/030 or even 14/030 would have been a vast improvement.

You said the maintenance relay pins were more discoloured, is it possible the socket is loose? Perhaps check the tension using a male spade connector to feel the grip.
If it were my bike I would polish the pins with a fine glass paper and then wipe them with some Vaseline, it doesn't make for a better contact, (all grease is non-conductive) but will stop them oxidizing.
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Inturuptus Question   Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:54 am

Thanks Pete
From your diagram i will run the 44/0.3 to the start up relay and the 28/0.3 to the two pins on the maintenance relay

In answer neither of the sockets were very tight - but they were not at all loose ..

The small relays have a 4=30a rating stamped on them the larger one is hard to find the exact serial number 4RA 940 010-71  but that range are rated 30-40a - pity the wires are not

have sent a sketch of what I can see that matches the wiring diagram by PM as it may be very wrong Very Happy
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Kiwi_Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Inturuptus Question   Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:01 pm

I believe the sketch shows the same wiring.
I sent you a PM
Thats an interesting way to show the wiring colours, is it something you have a link to?
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Peter-3d
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Inturuptus Question   Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:32 am

Hi Roy and all
I am about to jump into an attempt to fix the Startus Interuptus problem on my 2007  4 valve 1100 GRiSO but I'm having trouble understanding a few things. (Apologies for my ignorance)
Firstly, am I correct in thinking that the start relay is the front one on the right hand side behind the seat panel? On my bike the front relay wires are Orange/yellow stripe; Green/orange stripe; red/black stripe; pink/brown stripe. These colours correspond to the start relay on the 2006 GRiSO 2006 wiring diagram, so looking promising...

At the starter solenoid, the wire on my bike is just black, not orange/yellow stripe as shown on the wiring diagram. Could this be right or just irrelevant?

So, as I understand it, step 1 is to route a new 2.5mm2 wire from the orange/yellow stripe terminal 5 on the start relay direct to the spade connector on the starter motor and tape back and disable the existing wire ends. Is this ok?

Then step 2 involving a direct battery feed via 20amp in line fuse etc is where I'm stumped. Would appreciate any help/step by step guide to this step assuming it is necessary on a 2007 4v.
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Kiwi_Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Inturuptus Question   Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:20 pm

First of all let me first be clear on your bike, its a 2 Valve per cylinder 1100?
The 2007 GRiSO I have has only 1 Start relay, no Maintenance Relay
Your Step 1 is correct the existing wire is too small to support the 40 - 50 Amp inrush current the solenoid needs. There are two coils in the solenoid one draws 40 Amps but just for a split second. Instead of changing the wire in the relay base you can just cut it close by and join the larger wire on to the small tail, the other end of the new wire gets a new spade lug of course.

I don't think you need to do step 2 but if you have a voltmeter or test lamp just make sure that terminal 3 or 5 in the relay base is alive with the key OFF.
the 2007 I have already had the direct feed to the relay however you might need to upgrade the wire, a 20 Amp fuse for sure.
I didn't bother upgrading the relay feed wire on my 2007, with just the wire from relay to solenoid the starter engages 3 x as fast as before.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
If you do replace the wire from fuse C to Start Relay terminal 3 don't forget you must also feed the Injection Aux. Relay

This is an alternate way of doing a fix for anyone reluctant to start cutting wires
A new relay is supplied direct from the battery, the relay coil is fed from the original trigger wire.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Note how I have drawn the solenoid with 2 coils, how it is.
The 20 Amp fuse can be fed from the battery post but there are already too many wires there so I show it fed from the large hot terminal at the solenoid.
If the relay is located next to the starter the fuse leads should reach without having to extend them, Dont use a relay base just use spade lugs direct onto the relay pins.


Last edited by Kiwi_Roy on Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:45 am; edited 4 times in total

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Peter-3d
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Inturuptus Question   Startus Inturuptus Question - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:11 am

Great advice, Roy, I'll try that and report back. Yes, its a 2 valve per cyl 1100
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