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 There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there....

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LUCKY DAVE
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
LUCKY DAVE

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Join date : 2016-06-09

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PostSubject: There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there....   There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there.... Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:59 pm

A stock GRiSO is as pretty as can be, and has good mid range torque despite the poor fueling.
They steer OK, and don't wobble when ridden hard, but I could tell just during a test ride that there was a really good bike hiding behind all the botched chassis and engine settings and cheese dick tires.

The stock suspension and engine settings are miles off the mark, as are the pad material choice in the front caliper.

The suspension sucks balls, it's sprung way too softly with about 500% too much high speed compression damping, and there's far too much geometry. I had mine re sprung and valved by JJ at Suspension Matters in LA, the difference is night and day. To make the Sachs shock re-buildable, JJ sourced a bladder cap that allows re-pressurizing, eliminating the cost of sourcing a new shock body. He used Ohlins valve bodies with a custom shim stack and new, proper springs to suit my weight. I also pulled the forke up in the clamps as far as I could without the tire/fender hitting anything to speed up the steering and increase front end bite.

The suspension is now firm, yet plush. It no longer causes spine injuries on sharp bumps, yet it supports the bike properly during fast riding on bumpy twisty roads. I'm a retired National Superbike racer, so my definition of "fast" may be different than yours....still, even ridden slowly the suspension action is hugely improved.

I installed the Mistral high pipe along with the correct Beetle map (thanks Mark), and installed my favorite street tires - Dunlop Q3+. 34/34 is the right pressure for this bike, I normally run them at 32/30 on my Superduke R, Tuono, and Supersport s, but this bike is heavier.

HH pads went in the front caliper along with high temp racing brake fluid and careful bleeding, that made the brakes "good enough" for a 100hp bike.

To make the bike fit the rider (me) I installed my favorite Rizoma handlebar bend and  Dart flyscreen, I still need to send the seat off to Sargent to get it made right. Maybe this winter.

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Steak
L'Innominato
L'Innominato
Steak

Posts : 2658
Join date : 2013-05-28
Age : 55

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PostSubject: Re: There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there....   There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there.... Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:17 am

Nothing wrong with making your GRiSO your own. (Except for those Russel Day Long Saddles...)

I hope that it suits you for many miles to come.

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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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Papa Lazarou
GRiSO Capo
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Papa Lazarou

Posts : 693
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Age : 66

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PostSubject: Re: There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there....   There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there.... Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:24 am

perhaps Suspension Matters would kindly share how they revalved and resprung the Sachs?

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Nobleswood
GRiSO Capo
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Nobleswood

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Join date : 2016-12-20

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PostSubject: Re: There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there....   There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there.... Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:05 am

^^
Details. Details. Otherwise it's just a tease. Some of us are fumbling in the dark trying to figure out setting up suspensions, not having the funds to 'pay' someone Rolling Eyes So these nuggets of information help.

Pleased to hear that you enjoy the GRiSO considering the standard you've set with the other bikes in your garage. cheers
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LUCKY DAVE
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
LUCKY DAVE

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PostSubject: Re: There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there....   There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there.... Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:48 pm

Nobleswood wrote:
^^
Details. Details. Otherwise it's just a tease. Some of us are fumbling in the dark trying to figure out setting up suspensions, not having the funds to 'pay' someone Rolling Eyes So these nuggets of information help.

Pleased to hear that you enjoy the GRiSO considering the standard you've set with the other bikes in your garage. cheers

Properly valved/sprung suspension is expensive, expect to pay at least $1000, and just exactly who does the work makes a huge difference in the finished results.

JJ is the go-to suspension guy for many Moto America and Superbike teams, he has been a race tuner forever. To get my bike right, he had to have the bike in person to ride and examine, not to mention to be able to set up the suspension once installed. Of course he rode it on mountain roads to get the final settings right.

Things he has to know - What are the current settings? What tires are on it? Are they feathered all the way to the edges or worn flat in the middle? What does it feel like when he rides it?
He also conducts an extensive interview with the rider. How is the bike used (commuting - touring - sport riding - track days - racing - Pro racing)? How bumpy are the roads/track the bike is mostly ridden on?
And a big one - how fast is the rider and EXACTLY how much does he weigh in full gear. In my case I weigh 200lbs in full gear (Vansons) with boots, gloves, helmet, backpack, etc. He even wants your ear plugs in. The interview, and looking at the tires, are to determine how fast the rider is. As a retired long time racer he classified me as "I used to be fast" (LOL)

Only after he has gathered all the pertinent information can he make a judgment on how to proceed.
So, even if I shared my valving, washer stack, spring rate, and preload information, it wouldn't do anyone else any good. Perfect suspension setup is individual.

But I will say the having your bike dialed in to exactly suit your weight, riding ability, and riding area, is worth it's weight in gold. JJ has done several of my bikes, and many of my friend's bikes, we love his work.

It's worth every penny.
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Nobleswood
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Nobleswood

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PostSubject: Re: There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there....   There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there.... Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:47 pm

Point taken
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LUCKY DAVE
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
LUCKY DAVE

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PostSubject: Re: There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there....   There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there.... Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:46 pm

Practically speaking, the stock suspension on a GRiSO doesn't have the right settings for anyone in the adjustment range. Your skill at setup doesn't make any difference if the right settings are impossible.
If you are a 100 lb rider who only rides on billiard table smooth race tracks with slippery stock tires, maybe the stock pieces will work. Maybe.
Even if you start with a good quality aftermarket shock (like an Ohlins TTX) and a set of aftermarket valves in the forks you will still have one-size-fits-all settings. And we all know what one-size-fits-all really means - they don't fit YOU.
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Nobleswood
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Nobleswood

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PostSubject: Re: There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there....   There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there.... Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:07 am

True.

But for me the reason for asking was to learn. To look at the specs that for you as a fast rider weighing X riding twisty turns on fair condition roads, you have spring rates of Y. You mentioned 'hard edges damaging your spine 'compression, so the tuner installed this, this & that valve shims to accomodate that problem. Not to slavishly copy your setup.

On my GRiSO I have a used Ohlins which was rebuilt twice by different Ohlins dealers but neither time did the dealer think the unit should be re-valved.
The forks have racetech valves & a shim stack decided upon from reading, asking questions here & at Racetech. So to some degree I do have a ' one size fits all' arrangement'. As the tech at Racetech said 'it will be so much better than stock, you'll be pleased'.

He's right, it is. But. It's a beginning point. And with further learning I can understand how changing the settings & shims can adjust to correct what it doesn't currently do.

We did have a member here, Ghezzi, who was quite knowledgeable. He had taken his bikes to several tuners over the years & learned through that experience. He, like you, valued the greater skills that a professional has & could appreciate the result they could obtain.
Ghezzi has left the forum unfortunately, so conversations about suspension only go so far.

Cheers
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LUCKY DAVE
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
LUCKY DAVE

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PostSubject: Re: There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there....   There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there.... Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:33 pm

JJ's valving information is an "industrial secret", I'm not at liberty to share it.
But I can tell you that he went up two spring rates at both ends.
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Nobleswood
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PostSubject: Re: There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there....   There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there.... Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:37 pm

Sounds like he knows his stuff & understandably keeps his knowledge & skills to himself.

I had to ask though Smile
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kiwi dave
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kiwi dave

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PostSubject: Re: There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there....   There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there.... Icon_minitime1Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:29 pm

At the risk of being flamed, I'm willing to share my settings for my GRiSO 1200SE.

I didn't touch any preload adjustments; if it doesn't top or bottom out, current settings are fine.

Front fork adjustment.
Hydraulic rebound adjustment (upper) 1.5 turns from closed (clockwise).
Hydraulic compression adjustment (lower) 1.0 turns from closed (clockwise) as supplied; reduced to 1.5 turns from closed with Michelin PR4 tyres; later reduced to 2.75 turns from closed which I think was the end of the range.

Rear Shock Absorber adjustment.
Hydraulic rebound adjustment (lower) 17 clicks from closed.(clockwise).
Hydraulic compression adjustment (upper) 1.5 turns from closed (clockwise)

Note your existing settings before you tweak, so you can return to them if mine don't work for you.

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LUCKY DAVE
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
LUCKY DAVE

Posts : 20
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PostSubject: Re: There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there....   There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there.... Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:16 am

Quote :
Pleased to hear that you enjoy the GRiSO considering the standard you've set with the other bikes in your garage.

I do like it, there's just something about this bike's personality that I find pleasing. It's not very fast. it's heavy, the handling is nothing special, and it took some work to make it right.
But still, there's just something about the feel of the engine.....like a Harley I guess.

My garage also contains -

2014 1290 Superduke R
2004 Aprilia Tuono
2019 Ducati Supersport S
supercharged Aprilia RSV (See Texas Mile 2011 thread on Aprilia Forum, I still hold the world record)
2016 build "Dirt track correct" custom framed street tracker with Sportster engine
1975 Norton Commando
1290 Super adventure S
2014 R1200RTWC
2020 Royal Enfield interceptor
2018 Grom
1967 Honda Z-50A Mini Trail (first year, restored)

All of the special bikes were built by me.

I've got the hots for the new Hypermotard SP, I asked my guy to get me one but it hasn't shown up yet.

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Nobleswood
GRiSO Capo
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Nobleswood

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PostSubject: Re: There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there....   There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there.... Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:38 am

Yeah . That’s quite a collection Shocked
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Bulldog9
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Bulldog9

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Join date : 2016-05-14

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PostSubject: Re: There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there....   There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there.... Icon_minitime1Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:39 pm

kiwi dave wrote:
At the risk of being flamed, I'm willing to share my settings for my GRiSO 1200SE.

I didn't touch any preload adjustments; if it doesn't top or bottom out, current settings are fine.

Front fork adjustment.
Hydraulic rebound adjustment (upper) 1.5 turns from closed (clockwise).
Hydraulic compression adjustment (lower) 1.0 turns from closed (clockwise) as supplied; reduced to 1.5 turns from closed with Michelin PR4 tyres; later reduced to 2.75 turns from closed which I think was the end of the range.

Rear Shock Absorber adjustment.
Hydraulic rebound adjustment (lower) 17 clicks from closed.(clockwise).
Hydraulic compression adjustment (upper) 1.5 turns from closed (clockwise)

Note your existing settings before you tweak, so you can return to them if mine don't work for you.

I agree. Perhaps I am not very discerning, but I am very happy with how my stock suspension is performing after some adjustments.  Here is what I have in my files.

Stock Setup
Front Forks
Compression (bottom screws) 1 turn CCW
Rebound (top screws) 1-1/2 Turns CCW
Preload (top nuts) 5th (4 bands showing 5th band just hidden)
Rear
Compression (top screw) 1/4 turn CCW
Rebound (bottom screw) 17 clicks CCW (1-3/4 turns)
Preload (large nuts) not given.

From Sidrat
Front
Rebound (top screws) 2-1/4 Turns CCW
Compression (bottom screws) 1/4 turn CCW
Preload (top nuts) 5th (4 bands showing 5th band just hidden)
Rear
Compression (top screw) 1/4 turn CCW
Rebound (bottom screw) 40 clicks CCW (4 turns)
Preload (large nuts) not given


Bulldog's Setup
FRONT
TOP (rebound) 1.5 turns out
BOTTOM (compression) - 1 turns out
Preload - 5 lines showing tube is on 6th line
REAR
TOP (compression) – 1 turn out
BOTTOM (rebound) - 30 clicks out
Preload - in stock position
#36lbs F&R

I'm sure that a custom setup will be better, but this lacks nothing for me.
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Dilliw
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Dilliw

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PostSubject: Re: There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there....   There's a damn good motorcycle hiding in there.... Icon_minitime1Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:11 am

Your bikes on a similar journey to mine:

Stock Sachs rebuilt by Traxxion in Atlanta
Raised the front tubes to the 5th line.
Stock can with Mark's Map.
HH pads.
Not good enough for track tires!
Naked is better Smile

I just had Sargent do my seat and it makes a big difference with clearing the left knee.  I sharpened and pushed the rear rise back 1" then flattened the driver's area using their foam. 2" back would probably be better but you are limited by the reach to the bars (I have Onar's risers too).  $300 round trip.

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