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 Staintune experience

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bikeseamus
Squinternotto
Squinternotto
bikeseamus

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Join date : 2020-09-14

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PostSubject: Staintune experience   Staintune experience Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:39 am

Just got a 2007 GRiSO with 13,000 original miles. Looks brand new and it's been lightly ridden. Very tight. Here'e the thing. I took out the spark plugs and they were blacker than coal, as is the inside of the muffler. The outer ones even appeared wet a little. The stock air filter was dirty, so I thought that was the reason. Ordered a new one and in the meantime blew out the old one with about 120 PSI of pressure. It has a full Staintune exhaust system, so I'm wondering if anyone here has experience with tuning that system. Damned shame they appear to be going under, as the quality of construction is superb. Any help here is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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bikeseamus
Squinternotto
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bikeseamus

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PostSubject: Re: Staintune experience   Staintune experience Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:49 am

On the Staintune website they claimed to have gained a full ten horsepower with their system. That might be true, because the bike is a rocket with no hesitations anywhere..... still I am wanting to listen and compere notes with anyone experienced in tuning with that system. I did upgrade all 4 spark plugs to NGK laser cut iridiums. If I can avoid the non filtering K%N air filter, I will.
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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Oz1200Guzzi

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PostSubject: Re: Staintune experience   Staintune experience Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:33 am

Claims are like: lies, damn lies and statistics. I very much doubt a muffler/exhaust change would give a 10 horse increase. However I may be wrong (and have many times up until now - doubt if that will change much in the future).

It needs a map, unless it has one already (that is a non standard map), and may be why it is running rich - as well as a blocked air filter. Don't change your filter to anything other than a genuine one - rock strainers, be damned.

Contact Mark at GRiSO.org with details and he will respond. He's also here as Beetle...

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Pete Roper
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Pete Roper

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PostSubject: Re: Staintune experience   Staintune experience Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:22 pm

Is the paint still intact on the throttle stop screw? Has it got a sensor fooler added, either air temp or Lambda?

No matter what pipe it has it shouldn't be shooting up the plugs. I'd be looking for shitty add-ons, (Power Commanders, 'Fat Duc's, Finbau Forge's etc.) and if fitted remove them. Then tune it correctly and see if the problem goes away. If it does? Map it up properly and call it done.
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Bill Dee
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PostSubject: Re: Staintune experience   Staintune experience Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:48 pm

I'm not a fan of Iridium Spark Plugs in a motorcycle. They tend to reduce spark potential as the Iridium requires more electrical energy because they have a higher resistance than normal spark plugs. I always use normal spark plugs in all my motorcycles even if they have to be replaced more often. just my 2 cents.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Staintune experience   Staintune experience Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:13 pm

The iridium plugs are used in the inner plugs for long life because they are a pain in the arse to change. What they don't tell you is that leaving them in a long time will make them an even bigger pain in the arse to get out!

A plug is a plug. All it's got to do is light the fire. Few engines, especially ditch pumps, are fussy about plugs. As long as they're the right heat range they'll work.

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bikeseamus
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PostSubject: Re: Staintune experience   Staintune experience Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:26 pm

It has no add ons of any description, and no one has messed with any backyard fiddling as far as I can determine. Just took it for a 100 mile test run. The plugs now look perfect and it has no flat spots or hesitation anywhere in the rev range. It's much faster in acceleration than my Breva 1100, despite having essentially the same engine. It must be that superb Staintune pipe and maybe some different gear ratios in the first three gears.... I guess. In top gear the sweet spot is about 75 MPH, very similar to the Breva, but not quite the comfortable touring posture with the little (factory?) red and white bikini fairing. Earplugs required for the wind buffeting at that speed. Other than Chuck Stottlemyer's warmed up and supertuned Rosso Corsa "Rosie" it's the strongest accelerating Guzzi I've ever ridden. I'm now looking for a more comfortable seat. The stocker is narrow and too hard. I'm glad I'm able to find and use non alcoholic premium fuel in it. Maybe the tank won't expand and the paint will stay sweet. I will not install any K&N air filter on it because it's clearly not needed. I do still wonder if there is a better map available and also wonder is I'll need an exhaust analyzer to prove it. I trust Beetle and Mr Roper here to suggest things, as well as anyone else on this focused and fun forum. I'm not sure if this jewel could run any better, but I aim to find out. It's a fun learning experience. Thanks.

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bikeseamus
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PostSubject: Re: Staintune experience   Staintune experience Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:19 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
The iridium plugs are used in the inner plugs for long life because they are a pain in the arse to change. What they don't tell you is that leaving them in a long time will make them an even bigger pain in the arse to get out!

A plug is a plug. All it's got to do is light the fire. Few engines, especially ditch pumps, are fussy about plugs. As long as they're the right heat range they'll work.

I'm interested in finding out why the iridium spark plugs are more difficult to remove after long usage.
I always use a copper based anti seize on them and haven't encountered that problem yet. It is true the factory toolkit spark plug tool is absolutely dysfunctional and cannot possibly be used to remove the inner plugs. I had to innovate by grinding down the outer diameter of a chainsaw tool to actually get them out. No socket I am aware of could be used, either. I tried four different sockets and all of them hit the top of the head and would not seat onto the plugs. If I were to pull the heads off the engine I would need to machine a larger diameter spark plug channel to actually use a traditional mechanic's socket.
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bikeseamus
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PostSubject: Re: Staintune experience   Staintune experience Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:40 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
Is the paint still intact on the throttle stop screw? Has it got a sensor fooler added, either air temp or Lambda?

No matter what pipe it has it shouldn't be shooting up the plugs. I'd be looking for shitty add-ons, (Power Commanders, 'Fat Duc's, Finbau Forge's etc.) and if fitted remove them. Then tune it correctly and see if the problem goes away. If it does? Map it up properly and call it done.

Some progress in the tuning department. 200 more miles and the rich mixture has gone away and the bike seemed to run perfectly except at very low RPMs, so I did some research and installed a Booster Plug after communicating with its inventor on email. WOW! What a sweet difference it made at low RPMs and when shifting.... much smoother at low RPMs and when shifting up or down. That little device is a simple idea, just telling the fuel delivery system that it is actually 20 Degrees F lower than it actually is. As a result it slightly richens the mixture at very low RPMs, which turned out perfectly on my bike. I am amazed how much smoother it runs now. Next I want to contact Beetle about what might be the perfect map for it with the Staintune System and a very slightly richer and smoother bottom end. I've just hit my mechanical ignorance wall, because I am not an automotive electronic technician and my brain explodes when I listen to motorheads with electronic experience and knowledge. Seems to me I will need an exhaust analyzer, which I expect Beetle has used to design his brilliant maps. I've heard nothing but good things about them from our very competent and honest Guzzi dealer in Cincinnati. Enzo the owner says that Beetle's Maps are the only ones he uses now. No power commanders or dyno tuning required. Thanks for all the help here and I can now absolutely recommend Staintune systems and a Power Boost system for anybody experiencing a low RPM lean stumble. Now I want to find and install the perfect map. Valves are set at 004" and 006", stock air filter. Premium 90 octane alcohol free fuel.Thanks again.
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rick pope
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PostSubject: Re: Staintune experience   Staintune experience Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:59 pm

Enzo installed the Beetle map for me two weeks ago. Yes, it transformed the bike. Mine has snorkle removed and Agostini oval muffler, no other mods.

I'm just west of Cincy if you ever come through.......
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Staintune experience   Staintune experience Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:07 pm

Take the 'Booster Plug' off. It's a horrible kludgeand will damage your engine.
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: Staintune experience   Staintune experience Icon_minitime1Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:03 am

the booster plugs enriches your mixture at low rpm, AND mid rpm, AND High rpm. On a very hot day you will ask WTF is wrong with the bike. The answer is the booster plug. Take it off, map it correctly and go enjoy your bike.

Snake oil salesman. Reminds me of the story of Power Commander, but I won't get into that...
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bikeseamus
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PostSubject: Re: Staintune experience   Staintune experience Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:59 am

With the Staintune it doesn't seem to enrichen the mixture except maybe at 5000 RPMs and below. I just got 52MPG coming back from Kentucky this weekend and the outer spark plugs look absolutely perfect, as does the inside of the exhaust can. It runs so much better with the booster plug, it's staying in for now. I spoke to Enzo's super guzzi wrench and he said bring it over and we can unplug it, then map it and see what happens from there. This brings me back to my original question about that staintune system. I would also want to know how iridium plugs are harder to extract after some use. I have gained horsepower and smoothness with them for over a decade now. In my old mid 70s Yamaha XS650s they showed a two horsepower gain on the dyno with no other modifications. I want to listen to other people's experiences here. I did communicate with the Danish inventor of the Booster Plug and now my own personal experience has shown them to be delightfully successful on my specific bike with my specific air filter and specific fuels. He wrote a book on motorcycle fuel injection and electronics, which can be accessed online. That aint "snake oil", really. I won't conjecture about anything else except the power commander requires a dyno and an exhaust analyzer, which I don't wanna mess around with. Too expensive and too complicated for me and I don't ever dragrace and have stopped roadracing. That's where I stand just right now, based on what I'm learning and experiencing. Thanks for reading it.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Staintune experience   Staintune experience Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:08 am

I didn't mean iridium plugs are by nature harder to get out. Simply that because their change interval is longer they have a greater tendency to seize in place.

Booster plug is an air temperature fooler I believe? As such it will enrichen the mixture everywhere when the map is open loop and in most of the open loop portions of the map the fuelling is already rich. When running in closed loop it will initially seem to make the bike run better but the lambda input will make the ECU trim around it pretty quickly or, if it can't and the ECU tries to go outside it's comfort zone, it will throw up a 'Service' warning and drop into the default limp mode.
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