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12425 - Established June, 2013 - all GRiSO, all the time...
 
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jstewart
Squinternotto
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jstewart

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PostSubject: Back again   Back again Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:23 am

Embarassed Not new here but inactive so long my password & user name were inactive. So hello again from the USA. I almost bought a GRiSO in 2015 but didn't because getting 100 streetable, reliable RWHP out of it was so difficult.
Instead went with a 1200 Triumph Thruxton. Great bike and at 448 pounds and 112 RWHP after massaging it was a hoot. Decided to revisit the GRiSO and see if anything has changed performance wise here with another 5 years.
Still one of the most attractive bikes I have ever seen.
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beetle
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beetle

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PostSubject: Re: Back again   Back again Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:03 pm


Nothing's changed. The laws of physics that applied in 2015 are the same laws we obey today.




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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: Back again   Back again Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:26 pm

jstewart wrote:
Embarassed Not new here but inactive so long my password & user name were inactive. So hello again from the USA. I almost bought a GRiSO in 2015 but didn't because getting 100 streetable, reliable RWHP out of it was so difficult.
Instead went with a 1200 Triumph Thruxton. Great bike and at 448 pounds and 112 RWHP after massaging it was a hoot. Decided to revisit the GRiSO and see if anything has changed performance wise here with another 5 years.
Still one of the most attractive bikes I have ever seen.

Did you ever ride one?

If ever this way -- a bit of a haul from Luhvul to be sure -- you are welcome to demo mine.  I happen to like Thruxtons and almost "strayed" to get one, but Grisos are quite a hoot, too.

I have ridden mine to Kentucky several times for mutton.  See, e.g., for my last GRiSO run there.

Muttoning Sept 2018

Maybe we can link up next May?  

1921!

Bill
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rick pope
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PostSubject: Re: Back again   Back again Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:12 pm

I'm just an hour or two from you, just west of Cincinnati. My GRiSO is freshly Beetleized, and tuned up. I've got higher hp machines, and the GRiSO is the one that makes me giggle in my helmet.

You're welcome to meet up for a ride, but I won't be available until early November.

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jstewart
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PostSubject: Re: Back again   Back again Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:45 am

Thanks for the replies guys. OK so my goals are unreasonable with what is available for a street 8V GRiSO, I get it finally. With that said what is doable in the aftermarket and who do you suggest? I fell in love with the looks of the GRiSO 1200 8V at the Louisville Kick Down years ago. This is what I want:

1. A reasonable reliable increase in engine performance through modification.
2. A replacement exhaust system that delivers performance without being obnoxious.
3. Any intake modifications (airbox, filter) that work.
4. Tuning preferably ECU reflashing that improve performance and are keyed to the modifications.
5. I will use Traxxon Dynamics for any suspension mods.

Anybody have dyno and A/F curves for what you have done? I have a excellent dyno facility here in Louisville available for testing and tuning. cheers
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: Back again   Back again Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:53 am


You continue to be unreasonable.  Wink

Seriously, your #'s 2, 4, & 5 are, IMO, in reach and if not wholly necessary, understandable with noticeable differences in the riding experience.

But, even WRT those, have you ridden a properly set-up GRiSO?

If not, how in the world do you know if you need more "engine performance?"  Motorag specs in some "smackdown" or "shootout?"

All of us understand the adolescent need for power and speed.  Heck, it's what keeps us (thinking we still are) adolescent. cheers

But, as you have already noted in your first post in this thread, there is an undeniable charm in this "brown egg" marque, and Grisos are unique even among other Mandello machines.

I write that as a guy who has owned Tontis, spine-frames, CARC, and V7 Guzzis (actually, still have all except the Ballabio, and the GRiSO replaced it ... and way more).  

Perhaps more importantly from an objective perspective -- though I am drunk on the Guzzi grappa jocolor -- is that I have ridden quite a range of other motorcycles over the last many years, with saddle time on a Kaw14 -- Lordy; almost dropped my wife off the back! Shocked -- and other 1/4 throttle adrenalin-addict draws, e.g., GSXR liter bike.  Oh, my.

A GRiSO will never -- make that NEVER -- get there.

So, if you haven't ridden one, try to.

If you have, make peace with its "limitations," exult in the carnal joy it delivers without needing the jolt at 90mph when you go for WFO, or pursue happiness on another mount.

Obviously, the foregoing is my opinion only, thus not only might YMMV, so might many here.

Must now get back to cleaning my EV and getting it ready for combat operations on the grand roads around here as the leaves turn.

And, whether you end up with a GRiSO or not, the invitation to visit the Moto Grappa remains open.  Well, unless you are a UofL fan. Very Happy

Best wishes,

Bill
UK Law '71

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jstewart
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PostSubject: Re: Back again   Back again Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:52 pm

Bill thanks for the input. No I have not ridden any GRiSO much less what you term a properly set up GRiSO. I am a lifelong motorcyclist (first bike was a 1965 Triumph Bonneville) and I now have 4. All bikes have limitations, some performance, some handling. I am over seventy years old now and my most recent purchase a Kawasaki ZX14R (my third ZX14) is my 62nd bike. I don't expect the 8V GRiSO to be a rocketship like the XZX14R or even like my 124 C.I. Harley Superglide. I do not think I am being unreasonable in expecting That any modern EPA limited motorcycle can benefit from some modification. I simply want to benefit from others experience (including yours) with the 5 things I listed.

No I am not a UofL fan, like you I graduated from UofK with a mechanical engineering degree. cheers

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jstewart
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PostSubject: Re: Back again   Back again Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:58 pm

rick pope wrote:
I'm just an hour or two from you, just west of Cincinnati.  My GRiSO is freshly Beetleized, and tuned up.  I've got higher hp machines, and the GRiSO is the one that makes me giggle in my helmet.

You're welcome to meet up for a ride, but I won't be available until early November.

Rick thank you for the reply and the generous offer. I would like to meet you in November and see your GRiSO. Since I am here looking for input what is Beetleized. I assume this involves some tuning or modification.
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: Back again   Back again Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:29 pm

jstewart wrote:
Bill thanks for the input. No I have not ridden any GRiSO much less what you term a properly set up GRiSO. I am a lifelong motorcyclist (first bike was a 1965 Triumph Bonneville) and I now have 4. All bikes have limitations, some performance, some handling. I am over seventy years old now and my most recent purchase a Kawasaki ZX14R (my third ZX14) is my 62nd bike. I don't expect the 8V GRiSO to be a rocketship like the XZX14R or even like my 124 C.I. Harley Superglide. I do not think I am being unreasonable in expecting That any modern EPA limited motorcycle can benefit from some modification. I simply want to benefit from others experience (including yours) with the 5 things I listed.

No I am not a UofL fan, like you I graduated from UofK with a mechanical engineering degree. cheers    

Teasing about the UofL thing.  I went to Kentucky Wesleyan undergrad, then UK Law.  Both were basketball powerhouses at the time.  I could have cared less, a sin, as you know, in the Bluegrass.  I wish them well, but still don't care or follow them ... unlike my many rabid Go Blue! relatives.  Wink

Anyway, I also did not mean to sound patronizing, especially to a younger rider (I'm 73 cheers ).  Sure can't top your 62 motorcycles, tho I did start earlier with my first three in the early 60's, all Yamahas.  I do miss 'em and avoid vintage shows lest I bring one home.  Very Happy

I'll let the more mechanically gifted here -- a list that I come in somewhere in the fifth quintile! -- speak to the specifics of your performance and related mods.  There are, as you might expect, quite a number of Guzzi and GRiSO gurus here.  Some are ... erm ... crusty but I assure you that they know of what they speak. Wink

1921!

Bill
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Back again   Back again Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:55 pm


Sassy Bill wrote:
Some are ... erm ... crusty



Hey! I resemble that remark!

Razz




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sideshowbob
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PostSubject: Re: Back again   Back again Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:26 pm

Here is the recipe.
Mistral high pipe.
Beetle map for said pipe, you need cables and a laptop.
Adjust valves, balance throttle bodies.

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Back again   Back again Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:33 pm

I have written many posts here explaining in considerable detail why the common, oft promoted 'Hot-up' tricks are ineffective on the 8V Guzzi motor or just plain plain bollocks. Also ideas like the one that modern engines are 'Strangled' by the evil, fun-hating government and tofu eating Greenies also galls me. There is no need for vehicles to be noisy or filthy and I can't think of any point in my lifetime where a newer model of motorbike didn't have higher performance than its predecessor.

Open pipes and modified air boxes are actually counter productive on the 8V and labyrinth air filters like the K&N are not only unnecessary but, due to their shitty filtration will lead to greatly accelerated engine wear and, most notably, damage to the throttlebodies, one of the most sensitive and expensive components on the whole machine. The whole idea the engine needs more air is a farce! If a 125HP Tuono can breathe through a smaller, pleated paper, filter there is no way that a great wheezing behemoth like the Guzzi is going to be restricted by its larger and very effective stock filter.

I'm not going to go through all the explanations again as to why the 8V cannot be easily harvested for more power. Just do a search. Mark and I have covered it many times. Nor will you find us posting or supplying endless dyno charts spruiking vast improvements. Why? Because they are bloody pointless and prove nothing. Anyone can claim anything they like with a dyno chart, no two are the same and there are far too many variables at play when they are used. What I do know is that on the dyno I regularly use, at 800m altitude and on days where the temperature is in the mid twenties and dry a well tuned and mapped 8V, roller tappet or flat, will make *About* a hundred RWHP. I know of people who have taken similar bikes to other dynos and have been told their bike makes 108 or more. So what?

A roller tappet GRiSO in stock trim or with most of the aftermarket cans, with a dB killer installed will make 96RWHP. Decent mapping to get the AFR closer to where it should be rather than the pig rich of the factory maps will get you to the *About* 100 mark. Taking the dB killer out and mapping to suit may glean you a couple more HP but it will come at the expense of bottom end and midrange.

There are few worthwhile engine modifications for performance. There is one roller cam profile for all the roller tappet bikes be they 1200 or 1400. You can build a 1400cc single spark motor, we've done it, but it is far from straightforward, (In fact we've built two, approaching it from a different way each time.) and the result was exactly as we predicted. No increase in peak power, (The larger, heavier, pistons meant that discretion meant dropping the rev limiter from 9,000 to 8,250.) but an extremely satisfactory boost to the torque with a really flat 'Curve' from 2,000 all the way to when it goes 'Blurp-Blurp-Blurp'.

The best way to make a GRiSO 'Quicker' are to map it properly and sort the suspension and brakes. The suspension particularly is pretty underwhelming in stock trim but being Showas the forks can be made to work brilliantly. The rear shock is best replaced. There are many options

Simply replacing the FF brake pads with HH's makes a world of difference but if you're keen an upgrade to RCS master cylinders and billet calipers is the best option. I've found that with my arthritic hands such subtlety is wasted on me but the HH pads were an eye-opener!

GRiSO is what it is. The 8V motor is a gem when correctly mapped and tuned but it will never be a Tuono. Love it for what it is not what it isn't. Or go another route and buy what you want. There are endless choices available nowadays.

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Steak
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PostSubject: Re: Back again   Back again Icon_minitime1Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:57 am

Reverend!

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: Back again   Back again Icon_minitime1Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:22 am

Amen!
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Back again   Back again Icon_minitime1Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:58 am

If you want your GRiSO to run like a rhino with a spear up it's chuff you do this.....

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Laughing

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Back again   Back again Icon_minitime1Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:10 am

And it helps if you get your maintenance and tuning done by someone that looks like this...

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Rather than people who look like this...

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Or this...

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The top one is rare.

The lower two are very, very common.

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Camphill
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PostSubject: Re: Back again   Back again Icon_minitime1Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:56 am

All Kidding and Joking a..scythe Shocked .. but the Beetle fellow must be doing a bit of Grim Reaper work too?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Back again   Back again Icon_minitime1Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:18 pm

Michael's family also own a farm. His workshop is at their home in Bungendore and it's stuffed with ancient farm equipment. Mark was round there fitting the logging gear to the 1400 that day. You can see the same scythe got repositioned as it's now above the bench in the pic of Michael with the Magni.

Now Michael's got his new wheels, (Subaru Outback with the full Paraplegic conversion.) he'll be able to get back out to the farm which should help cheer him up a bit as I know he misses it.
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