GRiSO ghetto
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.


12425 - Established June, 2013 - all GRiSO, all the time...
 
HomeRegisterLog in
 

 Oil Thermostat Redux

Go down 
AuthorMessage
GuzziLooper
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
GuzziLooper

Posts : 20
Join date : 2021-02-03
Age : 62

Oil Thermostat Redux Empty
PostSubject: Oil Thermostat Redux   Oil Thermostat Redux Icon_minitime1Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:25 pm

After reviewing Beetle’s [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] post I have decided to take a crack at it. The photo collage shows the beginning of my efforts. With the goal of trying to simplify the mounting and plumbing a bit, I think I have it figured out as to what AN fittings will be needed at the thermostat and at the cooler.

Basically, the thermostat will be mounted on the frame tube in between the right exhaust pipe and the alternator belt housing. Port 1 - fed from the oil pump will need a 90 degree ORB to -6AN and will connect to a hose with a 90 degree upper end and banjo lower end. (Banjo to -6AN at the port also possible. Pro and con insights are welcome as I have no familiarity with banjo fittings. Any flow issues?)  Port 2 - output to cylinder heads, will also need a 90 degree ORB to -6AN, but the hose will use a 45 (or 60) degree end to angle up into the space between the cylinder heads. I am planning on changing out the alternator tensioner bolt to a hex head to allow adjustment without having to remove parts. Port 3 - to the oil cooler, can use the straight -6AN nipple but will need a 30 or 45 degree swivel hose end to allow the hose to clear the right engine mount. Port 4 - from the oil cooler, looks to be a straight shot from below so it will likely be -6AN straight nipple to straight hose fitting. At the cooler I am planning on changing out the reducer bushings to 16mm by -6AN and connecting via straight hose fittings.

Now for the things that I’d like some input on. First, I am thinking of using prefabricated Fragola crimped PTFE hoses for the connections at Ports 1, 3, and 4 because they are compact and reasonably inexpensive, with a short lead time here in the U.S.. The clearance between the thermostat and the cylinder fins is fairly tight and I’m not sure the bulk of a field-assembled connector will do for the fitting for Port 1. Port 2 has a bit more clearance but I might still stick with the Fragola prefabbed PTFE hoses.

Question 1: What size are the banjo fittings at the oil pump outlet and the cylinder head inlets? I haven’t pulled things apart to be able to measure.

Question 2 - for Beetle: How did you route the hoses down at the cooler? It’s looking to me like the hoses from Ports 3 and 4 may need to wrap around in front and under the lower right engine mount and go in at the front of the oil cooler housing.

Question 3 - Any thoughts about fabricating the hose assembly up at the cylinder head? It looks like Guzzi uses a custom welded hardline T section that would be hard to duplicate with AN fittings. A double ended or stacked banjo at the right cylinder head might be a workaround. Clearance issues? Taking the old assembly to a hydraulic shop and having them cut the hose and install a crimped 45 degree connector to get to Port 2 might also be an option, or will the -6AN fittings work with the original hose? (Beetle, how did you do this?) I would prefer to remove and store the original parts so that the bike can be returned to the stack configuration if desired.

Question 4 - Are there any issues with using steel banjo fittings at aluminum connection points, such as at the head or the thermostat? There are some ones with angled tubing and barbs that could be fabricated with crimped sleeves that would make for a much more compact installation. Most of these are listed as fuel or nitrous fittings. Would they have sufficient flow for oil too?


[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
beetle
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
beetle

Posts : 8249
Join date : 2013-09-30

Oil Thermostat Redux Empty
PostSubject: Re: Oil Thermostat Redux   Oil Thermostat Redux Icon_minitime1Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:22 pm

GuzziLooper wrote:

Question 1: What size are the banjo fittings at the oil pump outlet and the cylinder head inlets? I haven’t pulled things apart to be able to measure.


16mm.


Quote :

Question 2 - for Beetle: How did you route the hoses down at the cooler? It’s looking to me like the hoses from Ports 3 and 4 may need to wrap around in front and under the lower right engine mount and go in at the front of the oil cooler housing.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]



Quote :

Question 3 - Any thoughts about fabricating the hose assembly up at the cylinder head? It looks like Guzzi uses a custom welded hardline T section that would be hard to duplicate with AN fittings. A double ended or stacked banjo at the right cylinder head might be a workaround. Clearance issues? Taking the old assembly to a hydraulic shop and having them cut the hose and install a crimped 45 degree connector to get to Port 2 might also be an option, or will the -6AN fittings work with the original hose? (Beetle, how did you do this?) I would prefer to remove and store the original parts so that the bike can be returned to the stack configuration if desired.


I used a -6AN swivel t-piece of the right cylinder, with a short section of hose to the left. I used a 180 degree coupler on the left cylinder for strain relief. A 90 degree or straight banjo would work. Not 100% visible in this pic.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]



Quote :

Question 4 - Are there any issues with using steel banjo fittings at aluminum connection points, such as at the head or the thermostat? There are some ones with angled tubing and barbs that could be fabricated with crimped sleeves that would make for a much more compact installation. Most of these are listed as fuel or nitrous fittings. Would they have sufficient flow for oil too?


Probably not. I used alloy banjo's.





Back to top Go down
https://www.griso.org
GuzziLooper
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
GuzziLooper

Posts : 20
Join date : 2021-02-03
Age : 62

Oil Thermostat Redux Empty
PostSubject: Re: Oil Thermostat Redux   Oil Thermostat Redux Icon_minitime1Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:53 pm

Beetle, thanks for the photos and the insights. I see that you had some of the same struggles in trying to get everything plumbed in. I am appreciating why Guzzi went with the custom piece of hardline between the cylinder heads. By the way, it looks like you reused the original feed hose that went from the oil pump outlet to the cooler. Correct? If so, what is the size of the threaded metric fitting on the end?
Back to top Go down
beetle
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
beetle

Posts : 8249
Join date : 2013-09-30

Oil Thermostat Redux Empty
PostSubject: Re: Oil Thermostat Redux   Oil Thermostat Redux Icon_minitime1Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:00 am

GuzziLooper wrote:
By the way, it looks like you reused the original feed hose that went from the oil pump outlet to the cooler. Correct? If so, what is the size of the threaded metric fitting on the end?


Correct. All the stock fittings are M16.




Back to top Go down
https://www.griso.org
GuzziLooper
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
GuzziLooper

Posts : 20
Join date : 2021-02-03
Age : 62

Oil Thermostat Redux Empty
PostSubject: Re: Oil Thermostat Redux   Oil Thermostat Redux Icon_minitime1Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:10 am

beetle wrote:
GuzziLooper wrote:
By the way, it looks like you reused the original feed hose that went from the oil pump outlet to the cooler. Correct? If so, what is the size of the threaded metric fitting on the end?


Correct. All the stock fittings are M16.


What type of adapter is needed to get the original oil cooler hoses from 16mm F to -6AN M? I read somewhere that they have an o-ring on the metric male end. I haven’t had mine apart yet to know what I’ll be looking at upon disassembly. The only thing that I’ve found that seems to fit the description are these.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
beetle
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
beetle

Posts : 8249
Join date : 2013-09-30

Oil Thermostat Redux Empty
PostSubject: Re: Oil Thermostat Redux   Oil Thermostat Redux Icon_minitime1Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:51 am

I used two types. Nothing that fancy.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
https://www.griso.org
GuzziLooper
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
GuzziLooper

Posts : 20
Join date : 2021-02-03
Age : 62

Oil Thermostat Redux Empty
PostSubject: Re: Oil Thermostat Redux   Oil Thermostat Redux Icon_minitime1Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:26 am

beetle wrote:
I used two types. Nothing that fancy.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Is the tapered (angled) end on both of those the -6AN M end and the other end just a straight 16x1.5mm thread? What seals the 16mm connection? I’m guessing that it’s an aluminum crush washer as the same “gasket” part number is used for the banjo connections in the parts manual. It seems like a strange method for a hydraulic hose connection. I’m wishing that I had a photo of the disassembled hose to cooler connection to better understand it.
Back to top Go down
Steak
L'Innominato
L'Innominato
Steak

Posts : 2782
Join date : 2013-05-28
Age : 56

Oil Thermostat Redux Empty
PostSubject: Re: Oil Thermostat Redux   Oil Thermostat Redux Icon_minitime1Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:14 pm

While this is indeed an inspired pursuit, I've moved this thread to the GRiSOLOGY section...

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
Back to top Go down
https://www.grisoghetto.com
beetle
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
beetle

Posts : 8249
Join date : 2013-09-30

Oil Thermostat Redux Empty
PostSubject: Re: Oil Thermostat Redux   Oil Thermostat Redux Icon_minitime1Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:07 pm

GuzziLooper wrote:

Is the tapered (angled) end on both of those the -6AN M end and the other end just a straight 16x1.5mm thread?



Yes.



Quote :

What seals the 16mm connection? I’m guessing that it’s an aluminum crush washer as the same “gasket” part number is used for the banjo connections in the parts manual. It seems like a strange method for a hydraulic hose connection. I’m wishing that I had a photo of the disassembled hose to cooler connection to better understand it.



Crush washers and o-rings, where applicable. I wish I'd taken more photos of the whole process.








Back to top Go down
https://www.griso.org
 
Oil Thermostat Redux
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
GRiSO ghetto :: The Ghetto :: GRiSOLOGY-
Jump to: