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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:10 am

Anybody adapt the MPH kit to use the bridge to the maintenance relay and the wiring to the solenoid?
I know a fella could maybe use a similar plug on plug for the maintenance relay and adapt the starter relay to take the solenoid wire.
Just be a plug and play setup.

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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:14 am

I'm not quite sure what you are asking,
The MPH kit covers the weak wiring from the battery to the relay but does nothing about the wimpy wire from the relay to the solenoid, think 60 Amps for the initial current inrush.
This kit is not required on the 1100 GRiSO with its single Start relay.
Replacing the wire from relay to solenoid on my 1100 made it engage 3 x faster, does nothing about the cranking rate though.

BTW the wiring is not the same worldwide, in some parts they have a separate feed for the maintenance relay.
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 01, 2022 8:16 am

Kiwi_Roy wrote:
I'm not quite sure what you are asking,
The MPH kit covers the weak wiring from the battery to the relay but does nothing about the wimpy wire from the relay to the solenoid, think 60 Amps for the initial current inrush.
This kit is not required on the 1100 GRiSO with its single Start relay.
Replacing the wire from relay to solenoid on my 1100 made it engage 3 x faster, does nothing about the cranking rate though.

BTW the wiring is not the same worldwide, in some parts they have a separate feed for the maintenance relay.

The man himself am honoured Cool
Was just asking if the MPH kit could be reworked to include the bridge to the maintenance relay and the wire to the starter solenoid.
Possibly even using a plug on plug adaptor to the maintenance relay.
A kit like the MPH kit that plugs and plays.

Please understand am clueless where electrics are concerned I farm all that stuff out to mates if I can.
Unless of course its fully explained (photos/diagrams/ this wire goes here that wire goes there) in a way that a brain dead moron could understand then I might actually get it Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:52 am

I dont think you need to do anything for the maintenance relay, its powered up from the red fused wire via the sockets.
For sure i would beef up the wire going to the solenoid, you should be able to splice it on between the Male and Female sockets, I have never actually laid my grubby paws on an MPH kit lol
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It's the weak yellow wire that the kit replaces. I actually suggested to Mike that they include the wire to the solenoid in with their kit but he feels it's not necessary. I do know on my 1100 Grisoo it dropped the engagement time from 50 to 15 milliseconds. The 1100 GRiSO doesn't need an MPH kit like the 8 valve 1200, its relay is powered direct from a fuse, it doesn't even have a second relay.
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 02, 2022 7:44 am

Kiwi_Roy wrote:
I dont think you need to do anything for the maintenance relay, its powered up from the red fused wire via the sockets.
For sure i would beef up the wire going to the solenoid, you should be able to splice it on between the Male and Female sockets, I have never actually laid my grubby paws on an MPH kit lol

It's the weak yellow wire that the kit replaces. I actually suggested to Mike that they include the wire to the solenoid in with their kit but he feels it's not necessary. I do know on my 1100 Grisoo it dropped the engagement time from 50 to 15 milliseconds. The 1100 GRiSO doesn't need an MPH kit like the 8 valve 1200, its relay is powered direct from a fuse, it doesn't even have a second relay.

I mentioned adapting and fitting the solenoid wire to Mike too via Kim, waiting on his response.
Am in a world shit with this stuff  Laughing

So whats this all about then it bridges to the maintenance relay?
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And this which is the diagram for the above I believe
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Spotted this ensemble looks rather good, complex though.
Rele (Relay)  12v 30amp looks to be the/a maintenance relay?
The fused 15amp from the MPH kit seems to go thru too.

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Liked this post of Onurs from 2015.
I copied and paste the solution : "CAUSE: Insufficient cross section of the +12V wire energising the starter relay.
SOLUTION:
a) Identify the starter relay (orange/yellow, yellow, brown/pink and red/black cables)
b) Remove the relay and detach the Faston connector from orange/yellow cable, pushing
the tab down with a pin.
c) Prepare the additional length of cable (cross section 2.5mm2, as long as necessary)
d) Fit the Faston connector with the tab on the relay connector instead of the orange/yellow
cable.
e) Insulate the Faston connector from the previously disconnected orange/yellow cable.
f) Disconnect the Faston connector from the starter motor and fasten to the wiring harness
with a clamp to prevent it from dropping onto the silencer.
g) Connect the Faston on the additional cable in place of the old Faston connector.
h) Fasten the additional cable with the same clamp used to secure the starter cables"

Sounds and looks a lot less complicated Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:27 pm

Yes Soluz No 6 has all the right stuff, who is that by?
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I especially like the 2.5mm wire to the solenoid, if I had an MPH kit I would modify it that way.
I would have used a 20 Amp fuse, the inrush current will be around 60 Amps for 20 milliseconds but then drops down to 10. This heavy current is too short for you to see with a normal meter but its essential for the solenoid plunger to do its work.

in the previous drawing. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
The direct feed gets to the start relay pin 3 and to the maintenance relay via pin 30 (yellow wires)

I can't help thinking the maintenance relay may not be required with the new feed.
I don't have a 1200 motor to test this theory on, perhaps someone who has done the mod could try taking the Maintenance relay out as a test.


Last edited by Kiwi_Roy on Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:04 am; edited 4 times in total

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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:09 pm

Kiwi_Roy wrote:
Yes Soluz No 6 has all the right stuff, who is that by?
I would have used a 20 Amp fuse, the inrush current will be around 60 Amps for 20 milliseconds but then drops down to 10

in the previous drawing.
The direct feed gets to the start relay pin 3 and to the maintenance relay via pin 30

I can't help thinking the maintenance relay may not be required with the new feed.

Moto Guzzi evidently preparing Brevas for police service.
You could buy that kit on ebay for £35 in days of old around 2013
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:56 pm

If i had to do it again i would have just fitted a new 40a relay Ebay linky on the bottom starter bolt triggered by the MG original wire to the solenoid.

That relay switching a 27.5a wire from the unswitched positive at the solenoid to the solenoid trigger.
Then you can leave all the guzzi wiring unbutchered and its little trickle of electrons will be enough to fire the 40a relay doing the work
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:11 pm

lcjohnny wrote:
If i had to do it again i would have just fitted a new 40a relay Ebay linky on the bottom starter bolt triggered by the MG original wire to the solenoid.

That relay switching a 27.5a wire from the unswitched positive at the solenoid to the solenoid trigger.
Then you can leave all the guzzi wiring unbutchered and its little trickle of electrons will be enough to fire the 40a relay doing the work

Sorry for the reposte of your pics am just throwing stuff out there attempting to get my head around it.
Engines I understand electrics Arrow

I'll pop up in the summer as long as we aint been nuked then you can show me how Cool

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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:54 am

lcjohnny wrote:
If i had to do it again i would have just fitted a new 40a relay Ebay linky on the bottom starter bolt triggered by the MG original wire to the solenoid.

That relay switching a 27.5a wire from the unswitched positive at the solenoid to the solenoid trigger.
Then you can leave all the guzzi wiring unbutchered and its little trickle of electrons will be enough to fire the 40a relay doing the work
Exactly, with some Guzzi's thats the best way for sure, for example the 2000 era bikes where they use the normally closed start relay to feed the headlight.
This is what Icjohnny is saying
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Note how the heavy current coil is effectively switched out of circuit as soon as the main contact closes by putting +12 Volts at both ends.

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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:55 am

And someone on this forum posted this tidy SI fix ages ago but i cant find it Sad

I thought it was Paul Brice??
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:06 am

Wasn't me - never had a problem, no mods to original Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:17 am

paulbrice wrote:
Wasn't me - never had a problem, no mods to original Wink
Oh well until the the guilty party shouts - i will take the credit geek jocolor
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Thu Mar 03, 2022 2:11 pm

Onurs solution on his 1100 will that work on the 1200 because thats as basic as it needs to be for me Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 04, 2022 4:12 am

If you have an 8 Valve I would encourage you to watch this Video, its a bit long but a good one
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Note how the headlight goes dim, thats because on this bike his LED headlight is fed from the same weak yellow wire that feeds the starter relay. The Voltage at the solenoid dips to about 6 Volts.


Last edited by Kiwi_Roy on Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:57 am

Kiwi_Roy wrote:
If you have an 8 Valve I would encourage you to watch this Video, its a bit long but a good one
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Note how the headlight goes dim, thats because on this bike his LED headlight is fed from the same weak yellow wire that feeds the starter relay.

I've watched that video lots times he's a BT Engineer his video does me no favours.
Be nice if was a slow mo for when he fits the cables, considered asking for that piece of video.
Fitted my MPH kit today, it didnt work, bike refused to do anything thru it.

Yea that will have an effect Shocked
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All the tools I have but dont own a pin to remove the female connector from the plug Rolling Eyes

Was no room to fit that thing short of removing the entire tail plastics and carefully positioning it.


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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:27 am

I would revert back to the factory wiring and modify that, you don't need any additional hardware in there.
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:56 am

I'm not familiar with the loom on a GRiSO 8 Valve but I think I must be looking at the relays here
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All you need to find is the wire that jumps between relay 2 pin 3 and relay 3 pin 5, the yellow wire that connects the weak yellow feed to the relays. You can identify that if you remove the relays, turn the ignition On and probe the bases looking for +12
When you find the wire clip it before where it spreads to the pair of relays and feed the relay end with your fused wire from the battery.
Insulate the switched yellow wire you cut so it cannot ground out and blow the fuse

You need to be aware that Guzzi may have changed the wiring from our North American ones but I think the contact relay pins are identified by colour or size. One side of the contact will be alive with the key On, the other side goes to the solenoid so you can measure from the spade connector to the load side pins with your Ohmmeter.
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 04, 2022 6:37 pm

Very informative video. Thanks for posting. Thumbs Up
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:57 am

Kiwi_Roy wrote:
lcjohnny wrote:
If i had to do it again i would have just fitted a new 40a relay Ebay linky on the bottom starter bolt triggered by the MG original wire to the solenoid.

That relay switching a 27.5a wire from the unswitched positive at the solenoid to the solenoid trigger.
Then you can leave all the guzzi wiring unbutchered and its little trickle of electrons will be enough to fire the 40a relay doing the work
Exactly, with some Guzzi's thats the best way for sure, for example the 2000 era bikes where they use the normally closed start relay to feed the headlight.
This is what Icjohnny is saying
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Note how the heavy current coil is effectively switched out of circuit as soon as the main contact closes by putting +12 Volts at both ends.

Why is there a 5-pin relay in the drawing and not a 4-pin, when nothing is connected to 87A?
Just wondering if there something I don't understand...
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Sat Mar 05, 2022 4:33 am

5 pin can be easier to get, no difference if wired to 87
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:41 am

lcjohnny wrote:
5 pin can be easier to get, no difference if wired to 87

Ok, then I'm with you. Thanks Jon!
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:48 pm

That MPH kit works, my startup prod step back and let it start, went from 2 to 3 turns and fire to less than 1 and fire.

Helped some bloke on facebook (Phil) with a seized swing arm pivot block bolt on his newly aquired rollerised Stelvio, sold him mine for £50 delivered, which means got my new one for free.
He does lots of clever stuff with Dukes and Bimotas, reckons once he does startus interuptus going to knock me up a plug and play loom for nothing Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:08 am

Kiwi_Roy wrote:
I would revert back to the factory wiring and modify that, you don't need any additional hardware in there.

I thought that was mind blowing, fitting the MPH kit made no difference. prod the starter step back engine turns 2 - 3 times and fires as usual.
Next day after the 12volts has bled thru the shitty wiring Shocked prod the starter and she starts in less than 1 turn Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Startus Interuptus   Startus Interuptus Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 11, 2022 2:05 am

If the problem is not fixed then (looks like it is though)

May be worth checking the plug connector between the loom and the ignition switch as one of the connectors may have burnt out.

Using jewellers screwdrivers helps to remove the connectors from the plugs, if you haven't the proper tools
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