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12425 - Established June, 2013 - all GRiSO, all the time...
 
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 How not to do it.

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ratso88
eeyore
JohnA
beetle
Pete Roper
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Pete Roper
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Pete Roper


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PostSubject: How not to do it.   How not to do it. Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:16 am

If people want I'll try and get this turned into a cautionary tale and posted in the members only section, (Although I might do a YouTube forensic examination as well.)

This is the GRiSO I just bought that dropped a valve.

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Give me strength! I'm trying to find out if this was done by a professional.

I really, really hope not.

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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: How not to do it.   How not to do it. Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:37 am


I've said it before, and I'll say it again..Ay, Caramba!



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In GRiSO we trust!
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JohnA
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PostSubject: Re: How not to do it.   How not to do it. Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 04, 2023 5:32 am

I’d surely be interested in seeing that video Pete. The others you have done are great.

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eeyore
Grignapoco
Grignapoco
eeyore


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PostSubject: Re: How not to do it.   How not to do it. Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 04, 2023 6:08 am

That's on a bike - ok it's someone's toy but it's value can be measured in a few thousand £ / $ etc.
I see similar bodges all the time - 'professionals' paid huge hourly rates to service and repair multi million pound production lines.
Speaking mainly from my experiences in Europe, good engineers are in very short supply. If you find one keep hold of them.

Back on track with bikes:
In recent years I have moved over to the dark side and now ride an Aprilia Tuono V4. In June when it was 12 months old it went in for service number 2.
£300 for a glorified oil and filter change!
On the ride home I stop to check everything is OK - no loose fixings, oil drips etc. I notice that a Hi-Flo oil filter has been used. I re-check the invoice:
Line 1, Genuine Aprilia Oil Filter 1A023538 £25:00, Line 2, 4.1 litres 10w50 oil (must be F'in Unicorn Blood) £110.00.
I return to dealers - doing my best to stay calm. Voice my concern and the dealer informs me that Aprilia have authorised the use of aftermarket oil filters (global supply issues following COVID) and tries to pacify me with the £15 difference in cost.
Long story short, I contact Aprilia Italy and UK both confirm that only genuine parts are authorised.
Further investigation reveals that the air filter had not been inspected, and I doubt that the brakes were checked - they certainly didn't get any sort of clean and were beyond the wear limits when I inspected them shortly after the service.
It took the threat of launching legal action to recover the costs of rectifying the poor quality work.
My biggest grievance however is personal - through lack of trust as I now feel that I don't have an authorised service centre to look after my bike.
Owing to the changes in accessibility to the ECU, it's unlikely that independants will be able to fully service the '21 onwards Aprilia bikes.

Moral to this story:
If you find a good dealer please support them and share their names throughout forums and other communities.

If you own a Piaggio Family scooter / motorcycle near Nottingham UK, please select your approved service centre with care.

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ratso88
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PostSubject: Re: How not to do it.   How not to do it. Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 04, 2023 7:50 am

For Fuck Sake !

I see things like this and just have to wonder, where the professionalism is?

Is the locking nut rattling around in the oil sump? I have to wonder.

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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: How not to do it.   How not to do it. Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 04, 2023 8:17 am

ffs

I would love to know a good mechanic who could service my bikes. I would even pay over the market price if they were consistently good. Sad reality is I do it all myself for a reason.

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eeyore
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PostSubject: Re: How not to do it.   How not to do it. Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 04, 2023 8:53 am

Lazlokovacs wrote:
ffs

I would love to know a good mechanic who could service my bikes. I would even pay over the market price if they were consistently good. Sad reality is I do it all myself for a reason.

Agree with this but to fully service the Aprilia, you need the PADS Software. This unfortunately requires a main dealer licence.
Even minor tasks like turning off the 'service spanner' requires the unique software.
General faults can be read and cleared with a generic fault code reader but anything unique to the bike needs the software.
Last year it went in for a re-map and exhaust change - they are delivered new to the customer in an almost broken state as they barely run on the e5 compliant mapping. A change of ecu map and exhaust fixes the problem. This required the service centre to plug the bike in, once italy had confirmed the ecu number a unique code was issued that allowed the revised map to be uploaded. This process could have been bypassed using an up-map or similar but that would void the warranty.
Ownership is not all negative. I am 30+ years into riding large capacity motorcycles but still struggle to to find the words to describe the performance of the bike. Previously I have tried to avoid anything with electronics but the active suspension, stability, traction, wheelie control etc all work perfectly to enhance the experience but as above the electrical magic comes at a price.

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GuzziSteve
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PostSubject: Re: How not to do it.   How not to do it. Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 04, 2023 8:59 am

I remember finding a stripped thread/nut on 8V, that's when I noticed the change in thread pitches.
I made sure the parts guy had both in stock.

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: How not to do it.   How not to do it. Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:36 pm

Thing is Steve the early, coarse pitch, adjusters have not been available for several years from Guzzi. Presumably if one is damaged or lost one is supposed to buy a later rocker arm along with adjusters and nuts! That of course is ridiculously expensive! What some not particularly arduous research revealed though was that a swag of Vespas use almost identical adjusters in the correct thread pitch. The only difference being that the 'Elephant's foot' on the valve end is very slightly narrower but not enough to be problematic.

How someone thought that drilling and tapping the rocker out to about 8mm and then using what appears to be a bit of threaded rod with a locknut on it and no 'Elephant's foot' to allow movement at the valve interface was ever going to work just beggars belief!

What makes it even scarier is that this atrocity was mounted in a cambox containing a cam and flat tappets that are completely and utterly shot! Presumably thought whoever was 'Working' on the bike thought that they were in a good enough condition to be put back in service!

This isn't the sort of stuff that could only be spotted by an 'Experienced Mechanic'. It's as plain as the nose on your face! The whole thing just leaves me gobsmacked! I'm wondering what I'll find when I lift the other rocker cover.

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eeyore
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PostSubject: Re: How not to do it.   How not to do it. Icon_minitime1Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:45 pm

The guy that has done this f'ery of a job wil genuinely think that they have done a good job. Look at the attention to detail when cutting the slot in the soft as cheese all-thread. They genuinely don't know any better.
Personally, I am rapidly approaching mid 50's and am currently the senior engineering manager for a big French / global manufacturing company and see this sort of crap all the time. This is at best a repair performed by a £120  / hour motorcycle mechanic. Not some specialist that has cost a company £25k a private jet and helicopter to perform a similar f'ery on main production line.
Pete, get a time machine go back in time and book your time out to companies that appreciate your talent and integrity.
As previous, good engineers are hard to find. Look after the good ones.

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tinker
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PostSubject: Re: How not to do it.   How not to do it. Icon_minitime1Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:06 am

I would suspect that it’s because of the shot followers that this has been done, to quieten it down and get it sold, and let someone else have the problem. You hear horror stories all the time of bodges. But some dealers are terrible that’s why I do everything possible myself.

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Trogladyte
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PostSubject: Re: How not to do it.   How not to do it. Icon_minitime1Sun Aug 27, 2023 6:40 am

That's kind of scary! Do you think it was an attempt to fix a noisy 8v with flat tappets that was sounding like a bag of plumbing tools in a tumble drier? Or do you think the original was damaged somehow, and the new part ordered had a different thread pitch so....lets have a go with a hand held drill and then tap it. Right, where's my hacksaw for that threaded cheese bar....My mind is officially boggling.
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