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 Spring overhaul sanity check

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JohnA
JC_Guz89
Pete Roper
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raulnorry
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raulnorry
Montanarolo
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raulnorry


Posts : 24
Join date : 2023-10-24

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PostSubject: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 23, 2024 7:15 am

Towards the end of last year, my riding season was cut painfully short by the appearance of the dreaded oil pressure light on my dash. I'd been sitting in traffic for quite a while and I guess the engine got hot enough to blow through the oil spacer gasket. Between the impending doom of christmas with a large family, directly followed by two kids birthdays, getting the parts to fix my baby had to get put off. But now is the time!

I've got a 2013 GRiSO 1200 SE 8V, and it has a bit over 22k miles on it. No records or anything from when I bought the bike, but prior to the gasket incident it was running flawless. I'd still rather verify that everything is all good, so I plan on doing the following maintenance:

1. Drop oil pan and spacer, replace both gaskets (using tutorial from Janguzzi on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.])
2. Adjust valve lash tolerances (Great tutorial by BlueMarbleRider on YouTube)
3. New spark plugs (CR8EIX as I've seen recommended on here)
4. Balance throttle bodies (I've got a kit similar to this from amazon)
5. Change brake fluid & bleed brakes (DOT 4 fluid is what I'm seeing online)
6. Apply a Beetle map (already have the cables from when I owned a V7 Stornello)
7. Check & grease swingarm bearings (Going to use [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] plus this Wild Guzzi post.)

Is there any recommended tasks that I am missing and should add to my list? I'm going to list part numbers below that I plan on ordering as well, so I'd really appreciate a heads up if I'm missing something vital. This will be my first time doing any wrenching or maintanance besides simple oil changes, so I really appreciate all the information on this forum.

Sump spacer gasket (thick)
Oil change kit
oil sump gasket
Paper air filter


Last edited by raulnorry on Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:53 am; edited 2 times in total

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GuzziSteve
Fra Cristoforo
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Join date : 2016-04-14

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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 23, 2024 7:46 am

Looks complete to me ! Have fun. Be safe, they can fall on you while under on the sidestand.

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raulnorry
Montanarolo
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raulnorry


Posts : 24
Join date : 2023-10-24

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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 23, 2024 7:57 am

I'm planning on making that wooden stand that I've seen around on the forum XD

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:14 am

While doing the swingarm bearings don't forget to do the linkage bearings as well.
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raulnorry
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raulnorry


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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:18 am

Do you have part numbers for the swingarm and/or linkage bearings from a US vendor? I'm having a hard time finding them to order and don't want to get the wrong parts.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:41 am

Best to inspect first before buying. Yours may be fine if you get to them and re-grease them properly but you won't know until you look.

Buying all the bearings, seals and pins individually is an expensive pain and from my last experience trying I found some of them listed as NLA. The complete double conrod assembly went NLA but then reappeared, no idea why, but buying the complete item used to be a similar cost to purchasing all the parts separately and it saved you the hassle of rebuilding.

When the linkages and/or parts do go NLA we'll have no choice but to find alternatives. Doc Warner has already embarked down that route so a lot of the heavy lifting has been done for us.

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JC_Guz89
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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 26, 2024 12:35 am

if you're changing the brake fluid, you may as well do the clutch too.
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raulnorry
Montanarolo
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raulnorry


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Join date : 2023-10-24

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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:57 am

Question, what kind of grease is suggested to use for the swingarm and shock roller bearings?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:10 pm

Any good quality 'Marine' or 'Waterproof' type grease.

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raulnorry
Montanarolo
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raulnorry


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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 05, 2024 6:31 pm

Well I got the gasket switched out, but either the previous owner over torqued the drain bolt, or the 1/8 turn past hand tight was enough to blow out the threads. The drain bolt can still be put in and out with quite a bit of resistance, but I don't know how many more oil changes that'll last for. What are my options to fix this? Tap a new hole? Drill and helicoil? Do I have to source a whole new sump? I'm real upset right now *sigh*

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 05, 2024 6:53 pm

Pity you didn't address it when the sump was off. Never mind.

No need for a new sump, if it's holding now and isn't simply spinning just be prepared next time you change the oil to drop the sump again and Helicoil, or better yet Timesert, the hole.

If you have any doubts about the plug's integrity? Do it now.
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raulnorry
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raulnorry


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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 05, 2024 7:03 pm

The sump is still off, just the spacer and spacer gasket is back on. I'm looking into helicoils now, I want the M10-1 size according to the service manual. Does that sound right? I'll make sure to pick up red locktite as well, I saw a couple posts suggesting to put that on the outside of the helicoil and let it sit overnight.

Thanks for all your help Pete.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 05, 2024 9:29 pm

Take the plug to the shop you buy the kit from and just say "I need a helicoil kit for this." Make sure the kit has the correct size drill, some don't include a drill. Take great care to keep the drill square and if you can it's worth cutting the coil to length if it's too long for the depth of the casting.
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raulnorry
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raulnorry


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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 06, 2024 9:29 am

Fwiw, my drain bolt measured at m10x1.5, not m10x1. Not sure if it had already been replaced in the past or something, but figured I'd add that info on here for posterity.
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raulnorry
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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 06, 2024 7:33 pm

Status update: Helicoil is installed and I'm giving it a day to let the red locktite fully cure and set. I adjusted all of my valves, which took 3 times as long as it should of as I was trying to do it when the engine finished exhaust stroke, rather than when it finished intake stroke..."top dead center" was what I fixated on, not necessarily what part of the engine cycle. Air filter swapped out as well. I ended up keeping the spark plugs in there because they looked perfect. I'll keep the two I bought to have on hand for the next service period.

Tomorrow I'll get the motor filled back up with oil, change out the brake and clutch fluid, and balance the throttle bodies. I don't think I'm going to mess with the swingarm or shock linkages. I don't really know what I'm doing at all with those, and if I mess something up it'll take me out of the riding season for who knows how long. I'd rather leave it "Schrödinger's cat" style, and once I find a good Guzzi mechanic in the area let them do it properly. This is my first time ever working on a motor with my own hands, so I'm proud of the progress I've made already!
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raulnorry
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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 15, 2024 3:03 pm

Taken her out for a few rides post maintenance and thankfully everything seems to be golden! I've got a question still, I put so few miles on it after purchasing last year I can't remember if this happened last year, or is new.

Whenever going on or off throttle, there is a pretty strong "thump" in the bike. Even going 0%-5% throttle, as soon as the throttle engages, the whole bike kinda bumps as the power comes on. Same thing happens rolling off the throttle, no matter how smoothly I do it there is that thud. Is this shaft jacking? Drivetrain lash? Something I need to be concerned about, or just part of the character of the bike?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 15, 2024 4:15 pm

How is the free play in your throttle cables? Because the driveline, especially on the 8V 1200's which doesn't have a face cam shock absorber in the gearbox, has very limited shock absorption ability. This means that going on and off the power can cause sudden 'spikes' in loading and this can be greatly exacerbated by having undue free play in the cables.

If there is anything more than the bare minimum required to ensure the throttle fully closes and the revs don't rise as the handlebars go lock to lock on the opening cable and effectively zero play at that point in the closing cable there will be a 'Dead spot' where, when the throttle barrel is turned it doesn't actually move the throttle plates.

While this 'Dead spot' is very minor, often nay a few degrees of barrel rotation, it seems to be enough for our lizard brains to overcompensate for causing us to turn the throttle either further or faster than is required resulting in an *Over Application* so you get a greater shock loading through the inadequately damped driveline. Cue the lurch and the *Bump* you describe.

The cable free play is adjusted with the two telescopic screw adjusters up on the cables adjacent to the twistgrip. They should have rubber boots over them to help prevent water ingress and it's worth, after adjusting the cables, slathering them with a bit of rubber grease or Armourall or the like to help protect the boots from UV as they are prone to perish. The adjusters themselves will require either two 8mm spanners or an 8 and a 10. It seems to vary from bike to bike, maybe they used different suppliers?

Anyway. Wind off the locknuts and then wind in the adjuster on the return cable. Now wind out the adjuster on the opening cable until you can feel no free play in the twistgrip handle. Wind it back just a quarter to half a turn and lock it with the lock nut. Them wind the return cable adjuster out until you can feel it begin to seat the cable under tension and lock it as well.

Now when you turn the twistgrip from the closed position there should only be barely discernible free play rather than the maybe 2 or 3 mm there might of been ex-factory resulting in five or more degrees of *Twist* before anything happened. After this start the bike and ensure the idle is stable and doesn't rise as you turn the bars from lock to lock. If it idles too high the opening cable is under tension so it needs loosening a bit. Likewise if the revs rise at full lock the cable is too tight. You will need to adjust the closing cable in sympathy with the opening one but the object is to have a stable idle but the absolute minimum of free play between 'Throttle off' and 'Throttle on'.

Once you're happy pull the boots back up over the locked adjusters and go for a ride and see if it's improved.

Another possibility is the bushings in the reaction arm of the final drive but I'd go for the cable adjustment first.

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JohnA
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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Sat Mar 16, 2024 6:22 am


My throttle cable was that way for longer than I’d like to admit and it had those symptoms.
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el capitan
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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Sun Mar 17, 2024 10:17 am

Have you ever replaced the motor-side rubber bushing of the torque bar with the corresponding Stelvio-part? It is only 30$ and 1/2 hour of work, but worth it!
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raulnorry
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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Sun Mar 17, 2024 11:15 am

@el capitan, no I haven't heard about that. Do you have any resources or posts I should look at?

My throttle was way out of adjustment. I had easily >5mm of slop in the throttle before it started engaging. It took a bit of trial and error to find the sweet spot for the opening and return cables, but it is now much, much smoother on open and close. There is still a bit of a thump, but that might be down to my smoothness, not the bike.

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Nobleswood
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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:47 pm

I found that installing Beetle’s map smoothed out the throttle lurching as well. 👍

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el capitan
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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:50 am

raulnorry wrote:
@el capitan, no I haven't heard about that. Do you have any resources or posts I should look at?

My rubber bushing was 16 years old when I changed it and it was overdue. There is a new part and part number used for the Stelvio [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
The new one took some snatchiness out of the low-throttle-response and as stated the beetle-map smoothed things further a lot.
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rick pope
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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 18, 2024 5:17 am

Low-tech way to help smooth throttle response: Move your throttle hand out so that the heel of your hand is also gripping the bar end weight. Feels weird, but it helps.
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raulnorry
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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 22, 2024 5:22 pm

As I put more miles on the new-to-me bike, I learn more things...

Firstly, the battery sucks at holding a charge. I'd like to replace it with a lithium or AGM, what's a recommendation that isn't going to break my bank account? I've already put more into the bike than I've told my wife Rolling Eyes

Second, I've noticed that when I try to shift into 3rd, 4th, or 5th gears at high RPM (5500+), I nearly always have to lift the shifter up twice before it actually goes into gear. Is this a synchro problem? Symptom of a larger issue? Anything I can do about it that doesn't require a transmission rebuild?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Spring overhaul sanity check   Spring overhaul sanity check Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 22, 2024 6:04 pm

Probably either the clutch master cylinder seals, (You have bled the clutch?) or the plunger needs adjusting on the lever. Also how close do you have the lever to the bar? Try using the span adjuster to love the lever further out.

If, as is often the case, the clutch fluid has been neglected the master cylinder seals may of been compromised or even the bore of the MC pitted. CARC bikes and V11's are murder on clutch fluid. Change it every 10,000km or yearly.
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