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 Bevelbox seal

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Matias
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Matias


Posts : 361
Join date : 2021-08-19

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PostSubject: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Fri May 31, 2024 4:58 am

Hi all,

The rear end overhaul (shock+links+swingarm bearings+shaft splines) is on the go Smile

Pete, i just pulled the Bevelbox out and the pictures below show how it looks...
I see some oil smears there (or water, because I see some oxidation on the rubber booth flange....I need to confirm better)....Is this still normal or should I replace the seal? Complicated task?

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Matias
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Matias


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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Fri May 31, 2024 6:18 am

Swingarm bearings out....
They are dry and corrosion was starting to set in...
I'm going to clean them to see if they will need replacement
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Matias
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Matias


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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Fri May 31, 2024 6:20 am

By the way...where the hell do you apply the hammer stroke to remove the shaft from the beatbox?
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Matias
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Matias


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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Fri May 31, 2024 6:21 am

Gearbox not beatbox....damned spelling corrector...
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Matias
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Matias


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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Fri May 31, 2024 11:04 am

These outer-races are not silky-smooth anymore...
How easy is it to replace them? You need specila tooling or can you can tap them out with a chisel (like I saw in some thread) and push them in with a socket?

To start with, how to free the CARC shaft from the gearbox pinnion? I saw in a thread that you should tap with with a hammer to to free it, but I don't find an adequate surface to hit it....I pulled it back with one hand and stroke it first with a teflon mallet and after with a ball peen hammer....no luck...

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Fri May 31, 2024 5:24 pm

Sorry, busy at the moment. I’ll come back to this a bit later.
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kindoy2
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Age : 72

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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Fri May 31, 2024 7:22 pm

Matias wrote:
These outer-races are not silky-smooth anymore...
How easy is it to replace them? You need specila tooling or can you can tap them out with a chisel (like I saw in some thread) and push them in with a socket?

To start with, how to free the CARC shaft from the gearbox pinnion? I saw in a thread that you should tap with with a hammer to to free it, but I don't find an adequate surface to hit it....I pulled it back with one hand and stroke it first with a teflon mallet and after with a ball peen hammer....no luck...

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How many miles/km are on your bike?
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Matias
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Matias


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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Fri May 31, 2024 11:04 pm

55.000 km kindoy

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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:31 am

Hi Matias
those swing arm bearings need to go...If you put a finger in behind the bearing outer race and feel around there are two 'cutaways' in the metal behind the race that allow you to get a slim chisel in on either side and tap it out. In my case this was a slow job Sad

when replacing I used marine grease and then a length of soft foam pipe insulation tight between the frame arms to stop water splash following the exposed swing arm spindle into the bearings.
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Matias
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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 01, 2024 3:25 am

Thanks Johnny.
Do you have any tips on how to separate the shaft from the gearbox pinion? I won't be able to assemble the bearing on that side without removing it....
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 01, 2024 3:46 am

Pete describes that very much better than i can.
But here goes
The drive shaft is held by a circlip half buried in the splines on the gearbox output shaft.
if you get it all straight and turn the shaft while pulling gently it can centre the circlip then a sharp jerk and the drive shaft rides over it
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 01, 2024 3:53 am

With the shaft you can either pull on the shaft so it loads up the circlip and give it a good rap on the yoke attatched to the output shaft with a hammer or make up a thin alloy plate that will fit over the output shaft and protect the case spigot and then lever against it and it will eventually pop off.

As John says there are slots in the register the outer bearing race sits on in the frame that yo can grind up a punch that fits into and then beat the inner race out of the frame. You can use the old outer race, reversed, ad a drift to seat the new race onto its register.

Replace the seals in the frame and glue the new ones in with Stag or the like.

Pack the new bearings choc-a-block with grease before installing them. The main purpose of the grease is to prevent water getting in to damage the bearings.

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Matias
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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 01, 2024 5:28 am

Thanks guys.
I'm going to give it another go this afyernoon
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Matias
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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 01, 2024 6:00 am

Do you guys consider that the oil smear I found in the bevelbox (pictures from the first mail of this thread) is cause for concern?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 01, 2024 6:06 am

Probably not. Have a look down the throat of the seal holder. If it’s very wet in there the seal might of gone. Also check the boot between the gearbox and swingarm for cracks. If the boot is split water can get in and it’ll run to the rear of the swingarm. Was there oil pooled at the back of the swingarm close to the bevelbox joint?
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Matias
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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 01, 2024 7:12 am

'Was there oil pooled at the back of the swingarm close to the bevelbox joint?' - yes, but it wasn't much....
This is how it looks[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Matias
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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 01, 2024 9:17 am

I was already able to remove the shaft and the left bearing. But the right one is driving me crazy....I cannot find a good angle to apply the chisel strokes...
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Matias
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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:04 pm

Hi everyone,

I was finally able to remove the right bearing. It was a major PITA to get it out...Maybe my tools were not the best for the job... When I was inserting the chisel in the two small grooves (upper and lower), with an usable angle, there was very liitle room for the hammer...The frame and the end of the exhaust header were allways in the way....

Talking about tools:
- The top bolt from the shock cme out easy-breezy with the socket wrench I'm showing on the picture
- The shaft was not wanting to come out. After talking with you guys I sprayed the splines with WD40, and used that piece of wood that was hanging around in the garage. The shaft came out with the first stroke of the hammer on the wood.
- Finally my bearing extractor...Just didn't worked right...If you guys have any pictures or can describe what kind of chisel you are using (short, long,...) I would be thankfull.

Unfortunately my happiness was ruined when I found out that my usual source for parts (Stein Dinse in Germany) only has 1 bearing in stock....
Can someone point out another good source of Guzzi parts in Europe? Preferably not in the UK (like Gutsibits). Last time I bought the suspension conrod there and the parcel got stuck in customs...
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 01, 2024 3:25 pm

Try TLM in Holland or Agostinis in Mandello for the bearing.

To get the old race out Michael has a piece of steel bar he has ground for the job. It’s long enough to go right through the frame and has a bent tip.
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Matias
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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 01, 2024 10:17 pm

Yes...,that was the bar I needed...
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Sun Jun 02, 2024 1:11 am

I had a very old and often abused tool that was once a big screwdriver
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Matias
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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Sun Jun 02, 2024 9:26 pm

I am now just waiting for the parts to procede..
Those bearings were really tight on their housings...
I heard about putting them in the freezer to help in the assembly...It could make them slightly smaller, but it could make them also brittle and less tolerant to hammering....Any experience with that?
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kindoy2
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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Sun Jun 02, 2024 9:38 pm

I usually keep the bearings and races in the little freezer I have in my shop until I am ready to install..then I heat up the area I am putting bearing or the race into with an electric heat gun..and the bearing or race drops right in...using the old bearing to tap the new bearing in with, not hitting the new bearing itself..

My 2 cents
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Matias
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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Sun Jun 02, 2024 9:46 pm

I guess i'll try that...
Heathing up the frame doesn't damage the paint-job?
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Bevelbox seal   Bevelbox seal Icon_minitime1Sun Jun 02, 2024 9:54 pm

The swing arm bearings are taper roller. So you knock the outer race in with no bearings in place. There is nothing to damage.

No need to freeze it or heat the frame. A bearing press would be a nice but unnecessary sophistication just use an old race or s piece of hardwood to protect the edges and allow you to drive it in accurately with a small hammer at first.

If you have never driven in a bush or a bearing you should realise that getting it dead straight is 95%of the win so if you want to use a depth gauge to check it is 'square' as it engages?


Last edited by lcjohnny on Mon Jun 03, 2024 2:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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