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Pete Roper
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Pete Roper

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PostSubject: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:12 pm

Well, I've been very busy in the last few months and haven't had the chance to ride as much as I would of liked but today I finally clicked over 80,000km on the GRiSO.

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A very early A5 motored example mine should, if you believe the whining on the Internet, have been a fragile grenade so unreliable that it should only be ridden a few km at a time and so riven with problems as to make it an object of despair!

In fact the exact opposite is true, it's been faultlessly reliable. The only things that spring to mind as even noteworthy are that it once, after riding in heavy rain for four hours, did the 'Water in the speedo sensor' trick. It dried out when parked and has never done it again. It also in winter will mist it's dash along the bottom of the screen on longer trips. Apart from that it has been a turnkey proposition and I'd have no hesitation going outside today, getting on it and riding to Perth. Despite what some people may think there is absolutely nothing about the 8V that makes it any less reliable or enduring than the old pushrod engine it replaces.

In a couple of months I'll be installing a roller top end in mine. Why? Because I can! At that time I'll be pulling the heads as you have to to shim the inlet valve springs. That will enable me to give the top end a bit of an examination to guage wear. I think if anything is likely to be conspicuously worn it will be the exhaust guides but I wont know until I've got it apart.

I love this bike. Best motorbike I've ever owned by a country mile.

Pete
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
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ghezzi

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Age : 62

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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:14 pm

Congrats Pete, but you might have to give the duck a bit of TLC with the head job.
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Street
GRiSO Capo
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Street

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Age : 60

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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:27 pm

Congrats, Pete. I'm not far behind. I turned over 44k miles on my '07 1100 on Thursday on our ride to Neah Bay, but mine had chronic issues with that speedo sensor early on and it was out a LOT, probably close to 5000 miles in all. It went out in a driving rain on the very first day of a 3500 mile trip and several times after that. I eventually turned it ass backwards and greased the shit out of it and haven't had a problem with it for years now. So, realistically, I'm at right around 49,000 miles, but I won't count them if they don't show on the clock. So officially, 44,204 as of today - but I'm catching up!

And as you said, I love this bike. Best motorbike I've ever owned by a country 1.6km.
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beetle
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beetle

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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:03 pm

8V rocks! cheers

I've hammered mine for 20,000km now and (well, revved the ring out if it and thrashed it mercilessly) I don't have any fear of failure at all.

I love you
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Steak
L'Innominato
L'Innominato
Steak

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Join date : 2013-05-28
Age : 54

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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:15 pm

Good GRiSOs one and all! I've got a mere 15.5K miles on the Black Devil, but had 29K on GRiSO #2 and totaled GRiSO #1 with about 15K on the clock so I'm in the same ballpark as you guys...

Other than the terminal run in with the local fauna, these bikes are pretty bullet proof!

Viva GRiSO!

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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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wyno
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wyno

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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:19 pm

I've had mine since Pete got it for me in May 2013 and I've clocked over 39,000km. The only things that have gone wrong are the rear left indicator melting because of the angle of the pipe (which I've altered), and just 2 weeks ago, the neutral light not coming on when I put it into neutral and this apparently is linked to the cutout for the side stand being down. But these are the only things. It's an absolute blast to ride and I get comments all the time about how good it looks and sounds (yes Pete, I know it's loud). At the rate I'm going I'll have a 100,000km on it in another year and a half. It should be just about run in then.
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plantboy
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:42 am

Well done Pete.  As I'm taking your advice about 'flogging the shit' out of mine I can't see any reason why it shouldn't replicate your achievement in a few years time.cheers
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DungeonMaster
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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:26 am

I pounded mine for about 14, 000 - 15,000 miles in one year. I fully expect to get the results Pete got.
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Guzzi Cat
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Guzzi Cat

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PostSubject: Rock on Pete   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:41 am

Rock on Pete,  cheers at 18000km I still have a way to go and loving it, Thumbs Up


Looking forward to hearing how the head overhaul works out and learning if it is a job that falls within my ability.
When the day comes that mine needs doing I'd like to be able to do it myself. No Dealers over these parts now!! scratch
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LBC Tenni
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LBC Tenni

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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:05 pm

Thanks for the encouraging report Pete. Maybe I'll stop worrying about my flat tappets turning to shrapnel.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:59 pm

Guzzi Cat wrote:
Rock on Pete,  cheers at 18000km I still have a way to go and loving it, Thumbs Up


Looking forward to hearing how the head overhaul works out and learning if it is a job that falls within my ability.
When the day comes that mine needs doing I'd like to be able to do it myself. No Dealers over these parts now!! scratch

If you know how to service a head then you can of course do it but the reality is that a set of Neway seat cutters and a manual valve cutter simply won't do the job nearly as well as a Serdi bench. I, like 95% of shops will farm out head servicing to a local machine shop/engine rebuilder who will have the tooling to do the job quickly, efficiently and accurately.

As for guide work? I have yet to find a shop with the equipment to K-Line 5mm guides so if the heads need re-guiding it will mean making some as Guzzi don't sell guides for the 8V.

Pete
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Grisonut
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Grisonut

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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:18 pm

I had 36K miles on my first 09 8V before it got totaled...
I have 18K on the wife's 1100 and 8500 on my Black Devil so far.

But Pete, the only negative (if we can call it that) in installing the rollers on this bike, is that we're losing an early 8V higher mile trouble free tracking data.
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Guzzi Cat
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Guzzi Cat

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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:48 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
Guzzi Cat wrote:
Rock on Pete,  cheers at 18000km I still have a way to go and loving it, Thumbs Up


Looking forward to hearing how the head overhaul works out and learning if it is a job that falls within my ability.
When the day comes that mine needs doing I'd like to be able to do it myself. No Dealers over these parts now!! scratch

If you know how to service a head then you can of course do it but the reality is that a set of Neway seat cutters and a manual valve cutter simply won't do the job nearly as well as a Serdi bench. I, like 95% of shops will farm out head servicing to a local machine shop/engine rebuilder who will have the tooling to do the job quickly, efficiently and accurately.

As for guide work? I have yet to find a shop with the equipment to K-Line 5mm guides so if the heads need re-guiding it will mean making some as Guzzi don't sell guides for the 8V.

Pete

That makes sense Pete, when the time comes I will sort a competent machine shop, I would just like to be able to strip it down and reassemble it so that nothing goes BANG Very Happy I like getting involved with the big girl bounce
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:08 pm

Guzzi Cat wrote:


That makes sense Pete, when the time comes I will sort a competent machine shop, I would just like to be able to strip it down and reassemble it so that nothing goes BANG Very Happy I like getting involved with the big girl bounce

I'm currently assembling a photo essay on a full-ish strip on an 8V. I'll post it up here if people would like but it'll be all over my *Regular* boards because I'm a slut! Very Happy

Pete
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Tassiedevil71
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Tassiedevil71

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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:57 am

LBC Tenni wrote:
Thanks for the encouraging report Pete. Maybe I'll stop worrying about my flat tappets turning to shrapnel.

That's a "Ditto" from me  Thumbs Up
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bobbyfromnc
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:16 am

Congratulations on your milestone!
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:36 pm

On the subject of the flat tappets grenading there is still no definitive word but the things I've noted are overwhelmingly present in bikes that fail. Short trips, cool climate, not ridden often or hard enough, poor servicing. Sometimes they just fail, (Shrug?) but until this year I'd never had a flat tappet engine that I'd serviced from new fail. There has to be some reason why *my* attrition rate is so low.

Simple thing is keep all service records. Then if the top end does shit itself you can get a roller replacement. Also, if you suspect a problem? DON'T ride it to death fer fuck's sakes! If there's one thing that shits me to tears its people who use the 'It shouldn't do that! I expect better!' argument and trash their motor when it's as plain as the nose on their face that there's something wrong and then bleat about warranty and their 'Rights'. No of course things shouldn't break but if something does go wrong and you know what? Machines sometimes do! There is, at least to my mind, an onus of responsibility on the owner not to behave like a mental midget. Try and pull that shit in my shop and your feet won't even touch the concrete on the way out the door and no, I don't give a fuck who you complain to about my 'Unproffesional' attitude! Twisted Evil

Pete
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Guzzi Cat
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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:02 pm

Quote :
I'm currently assembling a photo essay on a full-ish strip on an 8V. I'll post it up here if people would like but it'll be all over my *Regular* boards because I'm a slut! Very Happy

Pete

Mmm, a slut that's a guzzi nut, Cant get better than that!! Laughing
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bikesnbones
Tanabuso
Tanabuso
bikesnbones

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Join date : 2015-01-23

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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:50 am

I don't wish to appear cynical, but frankly, I would expect any modern engine to reach 50,000 miles without issue.
I've seen more than a few air cooled engines way past that.
Most noteably, a Yamaha FJ1200, which I bought from a courier with 20,000 miles, second time around the clock.
I got another 35,000 miles out of it before it got reversed over by a national express coach while parked up.
Up till then, it was still purring like a kitten.
50,000 miles is nothing.
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Pete Roper
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Pete Roper

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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:23 am

Yeah, but of you listen to the nay sayers all flat tappet 8V's will shit themselves in a week.
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bikesnbones
Tanabuso
Tanabuso
bikesnbones

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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:54 am

Pete Roper wrote:
Yeah, but of you listen to the nay sayers all flat tappet 8V's will shit themselves in a week.

My local Guzzi Dealer (Thor Motorcycles) gave me their thoughts on this.
The owner, (Colin) who is a widely respected expert on air cooled engines in my area, told me that the cam follower issue was a load of crap.
He reckons that the problems that did arise, were as a result of dealers putting in non suitalble oils.
He told me that he had a drawer full of cam parts in his office desk, from 26 bikes he'd had to recall, that were like brand new.
He reckons that for most dealers, Guzzi are a tiny fraction of their total sales output, so they won't invest in oil which is going to be rarely used.
The result is, bog standard cheap crap going in their, which will work for most bikes, but not Guzzi's.
Interestingly, he told me about an experiment they did in his workshop, to time how long it takes for the oil to reach the top end on a cold start up on an 8V engine.
I was shocked when he said, 21 seconds.
The answer (according to him), is to use a top quality ester based oil at the first service.
He then went into a lot of tech gobbledy gook which went right over my head, but he's sold quite a few early 8v's, and never had one back.
His own 2008 GRiSO 1200 has been hammered regularly at track days, as well as all over Europe, without a single issue.
Despite all of that, I am still scared of the 1200.
I might have bought one if I wasn't.
Instead I've gone for the 1100.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:24 pm

Yes, he's half right. Time taken for the oil to reach the top end isn't an issue as the cams sit in weirs but oil type and temperature are very relevant. There may also be questions about manufacturing quality gof the DLC on the Tappet faces but I'm not willing to make a call on that without more information.

Hammering the clacker out of an 8V will do it no harm at all. Short trips in cool, damp environments are the killer.

Pete
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Andy in NZ
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Andy in NZ

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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:17 pm

Pondering the oil issue. Viscosity and oil choice aside, I wonder how much of the problem would disappear if there was a thermostat installed between the engine and oil cooler? Question
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bikesnbones
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Tanabuso
bikesnbones

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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:18 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
Yes, he's half right. Time taken for the oil to reach the top end isn't an issue as the cams sit in weirs

Yes now that you mention it, I do remember him saying something like that, but Colin's one of these blokes who, if you are a foreigner and give the impression of having a basic understanding of the English language, will clatter away in broad Cornish assuming you understand everything he says, which I didn't.
Crying or Very sad
Tell me, is it true that the 8V engines are thirsty.
I've read reports of 27 - 30 mpg (Imp)
Blimey.
I get better than that out of my VMAX.
Ridden hard I can easily get 35mpg
A guy in a club I belong too, has a Breva 1100, and regularly get's 45 - 50 mpg, and he's a bloody quick rider.
I'm hoping to get that out of the GRiSO 1100 I'm getting this week.
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Pete Roper
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Pete Roper

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PostSubject: Re: 50,000 miles   50,000 miles Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:41 pm

As stock they are thirsty. There are several reasons for this but principally it comes down to poor mapping and the crude nature of the fuel trimming.

It's a common fallacy that 'Modern engines are mapped super lean to meet emissions regulations.' In fact in most cases, and very much so in the case of the W5AM equipped bikes, the maps are very rich and then rely on the narrow band O2 sensor to trim the fuel back to a level that will allow the engine to pass emissions testing. Once out of the closed loop area the main maps are rich and the delta adjustments are poor and crude adding to the problem.

Most of the guys who have been log building maps are finding that rather than adding fuel in most areas the answer is, with the lambda off, pull fuel out! In certain areas pull a lot of fuel out! Strangely enough this leads to improved fuel economy, as long as you can keep your right wrist in check!

The on board calculator is also terribly pessimistic on the whole. Mine says I'm using 5.5-6.2 l/100km most of the time when I'm travelling at quasi-legal speeds. The reality is much better. This is using Mark's Mistral Hi-Pipe with dB killer map which is absolutely outstanding. It's transformed a damned fine bike into a fantastic one and increased my range to well over 300km if I take it easy.

Pete
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