Magic juice for your Moto Guzzi

I have had some discussion in the past little while with OUR FIG.

My Sport was getting hard to start, and was smelling of fuel when starting, even when hot. Lots of suggestions were made, including adjusting warm-up table and temperature compensation table. No Improvement was found.

Went back to a map before I started fiddling (late August/September) thinking this might be a better base. No difference was found.

The starting problem is getting worse, to the point where I have to re-start several times to get the old girl cracking.

Pulled out some more hair and was reading a story somewhere about poor starting/running/economy could be caused by clogged or dirty injectors. No, my economy has not changed for over a year - slightly worse in winter when temp are below 10 degrees.

Anyway, Mr Penrite (purveyor of fine oils for Moto Guzzis in Australia) has a total system cleaner for petrol (and another those oil burners, but that does not worry us now), for the princely sum of $23.

Purchased some and today was a ride day, and a fill day, so in a calibrated amount went in ("looks" about enough in the dark), doddle down to the local outlet, and filled the old girl up.

No changes were noticed for some 30 odd kilometres, then things seemed to get better - I know the placebo effect and all that. Performance and responsiveness, duly ignore.

I get close to my commute end (61 km) and look down at the dash and 4.3 l/100 km. WHAT! Normally this is around 4.6-4.7 l/100 km. OK this may actually work, this snake oil product - maybe it's not snake oil after all?

I'll be interesting to see how a cold start goes this afternoon, and whether the fuel smell is still prevalent, on a re-start.

I have over 120,000 km on "Black Betty" now, and maybe, just maybe, she needed a bit of an enema. So far so good.

Also worth knowing is that you can buy a new injector for about $30 AUD. They are from China like everything else, but, the kicker here is that they are identical to the Weber Marelli unit which is something like $240. I found this out 6 months ago when the GRiSO was misfiring and I thought at that stage the injectors might be on the way out. A side by side comparison showed the Chinese and Weber units to be identical.

Thanks Darrell. Good to know. Do you have a part number and an outlet? Though mine is different to the GRiSO ones...

Some "snake oils" do work.
Years ago I had been using a little known product in my car. Just a small dose per tankful.
My mechanic said none of that shit works and, because my car had high mileage it would benefit greatly from injectors being removed and sonically cleaned.

We came to an agreement. He would remove and test their spray/flow patterns, clean & retest. If there was no improvement the service would be free.

It was a waste of my time watching him do all that work for nothing.

Fingers crossed for your cold start this afternoon Tony. Oh, and give it a 1,000 kms for the full benefit.

Fuel injection system cleaners do seem to work, as far as I know they are mostly kerosene based with some secret ingredient X that may or may not be extra beneficial. I use Forte Fuel System Cleaner, once a year I pour in a bottle, and for a while (as long as the stuff is still in the fueltank I guess) the bike definitely rides better and fuel consumption is noticeably lower.
I like to think it will help in the long run, even though it may be economically more sound to not poor in an expensive bottle every year, and instead just have the injectors sonically cleaned once every x years or so.

Timothy, I think that is the million $ question. Personally, if I don't have to pull anything apart, I am happier. Cost vs Time

I dump 1/2 a bottle of Seafoam or a bottle of Lucas or Tectron into a full tank before every oil change (good for 10 gallons), run the tank of fuel and then change the oil. I also try to use decent fuel, and will add the correct amount every 3-4 tanks during the year for good measure. Did the same for my Carburated bikes for years, and managed to go almost 20 years without having to rebuild or open my carbs, even those evil CV carbs on the 70's Yamahas....

whoo hoo Mageeeek Jooose.....

I had no idea this was a forum filled with alchemists.

Bill

Ahem, Bill!

Toni,
Good fuel injection cleaner is not Snake Oil and depending on the circumstances of your bike or car engine can have a significant effect on maintaining effeicient operation of your injection system.
Off course it is not a miracle cure for something that is rooted and over use will have no extra beneficial effect but running a bottle of this stuff through a couple of tanks of fuel a year can often have a significant impact on keeping the system working correctly.
The benefits will really depend on the type and regularity of use of your bike and the quality of fuels you use.
Not specifically recommending it to anyone but my experience of the stuff has always been positive in multiple fuel injected bike and car engines.
The theory is that if you use it occasionally you will never notice the benefits as it helps to keep your injectors clean so there is no noticeable loss of injector performance, as has apparently occurred in your situation.
If others use it, especially those with lower km's on the clock they may not notice any change but my experience would indicate that it will help to prevent there system getting to a stage where the engine is affected like yours.
Interested to hear how you get on this afternoon and the coming days.

Oz1200Guzzi wrote:

Ahem, Bill!

Easy there, Tony.

I have learned from Pete the Snowflake that you folks Down There are sooooo sensitive.

If you could see the near-embarrassing contents of my "products" cabinet, you would know how I am "the pot calling the kettle ...".

Bill

Taking the piss, Bill, that's all. And you bit, so job done!

Well, said snake oil results:
- No it did not improve the starting, when cold;
- Still smells of fuel after a hot restart;
- Still goes better that it did earlier in the week;

A good hard think and cogitation of information our FIG provided. Still worth the $23, though, and I'll add some to the next 2-3 tank fills so it can keep doing it's wondrous work.

Bugger !!!!
An easy fix is always sweet, but not to be ..
Tony, you'l have scratch your nuts and have a think, re your next move. Keep us posted.
Keep smilin

BAD

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Better...

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product of overzealous intake manifold cleaning with injectors still inplace...

All classic signs of bad injectors. For whatever reason, your injectors are leaking down and not remaining closed when engine is shut off.  Cleaners usually cant clean out debris or build up that causes this, or a stuck selenoid, weak corroded return spring/slide or whatever mechanism the injectors use. Swapem out.

Oz1200Guzzi wrote:

Taking the piss, Bill, that's all. And you bit, so job done!

Well, said snake oil results:
- No it did not improve the starting, when cold;
- Still smells of fuel after a hot restart;
- Still goes better that it did earlier in the week;

A good hard think and cogitation of information our FIG provided. Still worth the $23, though, and I'll add some to the next 2-3 tank fills so it can keep doing it's wondrous work.

Pulled the injectors yesterday, for a look-see. Apart from some external corrosion, the hole assembly looked like it was brand new.

Started this morning much easier than it has in the past. I will probably replace the injectors soon, however, I need to check throttle body balance and CO trim, to ensure there isn't something else amiss. Again, this morning, went like stink, so maybe the cleaning process is working incrementally. FIIK!

OK, Folks.

I am looking for the real part number for GU05115730, which is the fuel injector for an A2 engine (1200 Sport). Does anyone know what the IWP version is?


Late Mail:

IWP162, also used in the 1100 engines

Has anyone "reconditioned" theirs? Kits are available...

Linky

Didn't I not identify your injectors in a PM on Monday?


Cheap knockoffs: LINKY

Yup, my bad Mark. Sorry

one downside of carb/ fuel injector cleaners are that they can move muck from where it was causing no problems to where it does-more of a problem with carbs, tho.

Two injectors arrived today - yet to fit them. Yay!

Fitted, easy job, started easily. Was even able to give a blip of the throttle, without stalling. Well I was a doubter, but now am "saved" and preaching new injectors over around 120,000 km, or even before if there are "issues". Even idles around 1200 rpm now.

Cost me the grand total of AUD $88! Winner. Thanks to all who assisted.

I still have issues with the stepper motor - sometimes it will not work, then it sits the idle around 2,000 rpm, turn the motor off, re-start, and she is OK again. Next WIP.

Yep, started first thing this morning, and I was able to take off as I used to be able to do. Winner!