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 Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!

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Grappa Goose
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PostSubject: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Fri May 08, 2015 1:06 pm

Hi!
FNG here... so new i've not yet had a chance to properly introduce myself in the "Who is You" forum! (I'll get to that soon!)

Anyways, I purchased a 2013 GRiSO 1200 8V about 6 weeks ago. It was Brand New and on Closeout from Redline Performance Motorsports in Yorktown, Virginia. I drove it home (about 170 miles) on back roads, being careful to vary the engine speed, load, etc.. per recommended break-in.
I rode it a couple more times the first 2 weeks before discovering a film of oil around each of the cylinders (around the middle fins of each cylinder where the gasket is). The bike only has about 250 miles on it!!! I think the leaks were from my initial ride home and I never noticed b/c of the low light in my garage. (you can see the sheen on the RH head in the photo taken right after my initial ride home)

At the moment My GRiSO resides at Winchester Motosport. It's been there almost 2 weeks (of prime VA riding season) while they search for possible causes...

Insult to injury.. This baby was a Birthday gift from my wife (#best wife ever!) and it was on my actual birthday that I discovered the leaks Sad

Anybody else ever experience this? If so or you've have an idea of what the problem is please do share! I can pass it along to the dealer!

Thanks!
John
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Grappa Goose
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Fri May 08, 2015 1:14 pm

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Steak
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Fri May 08, 2015 2:31 pm

No need to panic.  Just make sure the valve cover bolts are torqued down to spec (8 Nm or 5.9 lb-ft) worst case scenario, you replace the sealing gasket. Also, check your oil level for over-fill. Generally, I try to keep mine no higher that half way between min and mas on the dipstick (on the sidestand, not screwed in.)

30 minutes tops either way and you're back on the road.

Blame it on inattentive dealer prep, it happens.

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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special


Last edited by Steak on Fri May 08, 2015 2:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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little750
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Fri May 08, 2015 2:35 pm

Looks like the oil is nearer the actual head gasket and not the rocker covers.
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Steak
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Fri May 08, 2015 2:37 pm

little750 wrote:
Looks like the oil is nearer the actual head gasket and not the rocker covers.

You've got good eyes. I couldn't see shit in that photo... scratch

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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Fri May 08, 2015 3:23 pm

A couple of close ups of the affected area would be helpful. It's certainly lower than the RC gasket. I'm thinking either a weep from the cooling gallery plug or more likely the drain hole from the plug tube.

If the latter it is either the plug hole gasket between the rocker cover and the Cambox weeping due to poor instalation or possibly the o-ring/s between the cambox 'Tube' and the head. Leaks from either of these sources will run down into the plug area and manifest themselves as a leak from the drain hole.

If it's the plug it will probably mean a warranty replacement head but if it was in my shop I'd suggest trying sealing it with wick-in and a thin smear of carefully applied epoxy.

Pete
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Fri May 08, 2015 5:25 pm

Mike at WMS is a very competent Guzzi wrench, who also doesn't mind at all getting "advice" from the web, especially from the likes of Pete, Lord Roper.  

I was there earlier today picking up an oil filter; wish I had known, as I'd have inquired.

In any event, I (and Travis) are local and happy to look into this for you and share this thread with Mike and Carl.

FWIW, there are at least two other GRiSO owners in your area, btw (as in Great Falls and Ashburn).

Best,

Bill

P.S.  Riding my venerable EV over your way tomorrow to watch some 2d-grade grandbabies play baseball in Alexandria and Great Falls.
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Grappa Goose
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Fri May 08, 2015 7:38 pm

Thanks for all of the Help guys!

Pete, I'm anticipating it's a warranty item, the bike came w/a 2 year factory warrantee when i purchased it. I'm hoping it's nothing serious and i can get it back soon...and ride it!
here are some photos i took when i first noticed the leak.
oils appears to be seeping from this allen screw on the front of the cylinder heads near the exhaust port. I've also discovered that my riding boots have oils splattered on them...sigh.
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Bill, Thanks! That's great to know WM is a competent shop! I haven't talked to Mike but I've talked to Carl several times in the last 3 months, he actually encouraged me to purchase the GRiSO from RedLine since it was a pretty good deal! Seems like a nice guy. Just wish they'd call me back and let me know what's going on!

Hope you have fun at your grand kids game!
-John
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Fri May 08, 2015 8:44 pm

Yup, that is the cooling gallery plug. Now it shouldn't be removable easily but if it's leaking it probably will be. The warranty repair will be a new head.

To be honest I think this is most likely un-necessary. If the plug will unscrew take it out carefully then clean the entire area with Carby cleaner followed by contact cleaner to get it really clean and oil free. Then get some Loctite 'Wick In and put a drip on the plug threads and wind it back in. Let it sit for a couple of hours then start the bike and warm it up a bit. Not much, just for a minute to get the area around the plug warm but not hot to cure the wick-in. Then clean the area again with contact cleaner, let it cool and then put a small layer of epoxy over the plug. It doesn't need to be a big, unsightly, blob. Just a thin coating applied carefully over the plug. Let it cure for an hour then go out and flog the clacker off it and see if it still leaks. If it does? THEN warranty the head.

If the plug won't come out just clean it up thoroughly with the carby cleaner/contact cleaner trick and just cover it with epoxy. My guess is this will fix it.

Pete
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Grappa Goose
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Sat May 09, 2015 3:33 pm

Thanks for all of the help Pete,

I was hoping to get a call from Winchester Motosports today but it wasn't to be. they are closed now for the next two days so I guess I'll (maybe) hear from them on Tuesday.

-John
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Grappa Goose
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Mon May 18, 2015 7:25 am

Update On my GRiSO oil leaks..
Carl at Winchester Motorsports called me, said the repairs were done. Met the mechanic Mike--really nice guy! He pulled all of the cooling gallery plugs out and resealed them. they also took care of the '13 rear suspension recall that i was unaware of! (apparently this should have been done at the dealer before they sold the bike??)

Anyways, rode it home (the long way) and heads are bone-dry!

Thanks again for all of your help with this!

-John
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Wed May 20, 2015 2:43 pm

Thought I would add my 2cents despite being late.

The oil weep issue you have had Grappa is identical to the one I had almost immediately after purchasing my 2012 SE. The dealer I purchased the bike from resealed the gallery plugs as well. It's been bone dry as you say ever since but was quite irritating to see on such a new bike. I am surprised this is still happening with newer Grisos. I would think Guzzi is aware of this issue by now and would try to remedy it before shipping more bikes and causing undue stress and loss of confidence in the bike for new owners. It appears they may prefer to let it go unaddressed? Hopefully I am proven wrong.

Anyhow, glad to hear you have got it taken care of so you can enjoy some riding!
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The Saint
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Thu May 21, 2015 4:54 am

Triumph Tiger I bought brand new in 2013 had leaky gallery plugs. Just one of those things.
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RobR
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:48 am

This has also happened to my new 2017 with 1500KM on the clock. Dealer resealed and seems ok so far. Fingers crossed.
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:53 am

Wow, been a long time since I last posted!

RobR, Sorry to hear you're having similar issues w/your '17.

Here's the story of my '13 GRiSO's leaky heads...
About 500 miles after I got the bike back the right cylinder started to weep again and there was a little oily residue on one of the left cylinder gallery plugs. I cleaned them all up and ran the bike to see if the leaks would come back, it came back on the right cylinder but not so much on the left. I was nearing the break-in service so I decided to try the new shop that opened near my home-- La Moto of Washington. They took a look at the cylinders, noted the right side weeping but did not observe a leak on the left side. They checked the service history and turns out Winchester Moto never submitted anything to Piaggio so there was no record of there ever being a problem… sigh.

La Moto replaced the right cylinder head but with no prior record or new evidence of a leak, they didn't do the left head. The repairs took about 2 months, I got the bike back a couple weeks later oil leaks around the intake manifold on left cylinder. Took it back, turns out it wasn't related to the gallery plugs. Got the bike back just in time for winter so didn't have a chance to log many miles. When Spring came I went on a long moto trip through West Virginia with some friends, put about 700 miles on the bike. When I got home I noticed some oily residue on the left cylinder head. Not much but it was there-unfortunately at this point the bike was out of warrantee ☹️

Bike has about 3400 miles on it now… I've just been keeping an eye on the gallery plugs.

Hope you have better luck!
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PilotJet
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:12 am

I also have a 17 with the exact same issue. Going to have the dealer check it out in a couple of weeks. It is most annoying on a brand new machine.
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RobR
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:48 am

Goose, I feel for you mate.

It is hard to understand why Guzzi have not addressed this issue. My dealer said that they would try and seal the gallery plug but if it doesn't work they have to replace the head. How stupid is that. How much would a new head cost the company (parts, labour, time and reputation) for what seems to be a fairly common problem. Surely it would be more cost effective to fix the gallery plug. What am I missing here?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:00 am

I’d hardly say it’s a common problem.in ten years of working on 8V’s I’ve seen two, maybe three cases?

Unfortunately on the 1200’s plugging the cooling galleries is the only real option and because of their job and location it’s hard to get a sealant that will tolerate the heat. I agree it’s a pain in the arse but it’s not the end of the world and the machine will still be rideable until the warranty head appears.swapping a head on a GRiSO is only an hour or so’s work after all. You should only be without the machine for a day.

Pete
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RobR
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:48 am

Pete Roper wrote:
I’d hardly say it’s a common problem.in ten years of working on 8V’s I’ve seen two, maybe three cases?


Thanks for the perspective Pete. Usual case of happened to somebody else and now has happened to me so therefore "must be a common problem".

On the bright side what ever the shop used to seal the plug seems to be working. I took the bike out yesterday and gave it a thorough workout. NO leaks yet.

cheers
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:10 am

Excellent!
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sideshowbob
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:48 pm

I'm a big fan of anaerobic sealer for such things.
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ITSecurity
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:33 am

Hmmmmm.....

I'm seeing just a bit of oil on the right side jug. Gonna have to clean it up, watch carefully and see where it's coming from. Given what others have seen, I'm betting I'll have to go through this exercise with the cooling gallery plugs. Anybody have a suggestion as to how to locate all of them and how many there are? Can they all be reached fairly easily or is there a tear-down / tank removal involved?

Thanks!
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swagzz
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:35 pm

2017 GRiSO 8V SE
Still under warranty

So the dreaded leaking gallery plug has turned up, I can only locate 3 gallery plugs and it seems as if the lower plug closest to the exhaust is weeping slightly and the next one on the same level is leaking rather more.
The upper gallery plug seems to be sealed for the present.
What would be a recommended sealant ,my personal choice for this type of product is Loctite products but I am interested what other people have used to fix this problem.
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swagzz
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:15 pm

on closer inspection ,only 2 grub screws sealing the oil galleries,
hole above must be the drain hole from cam boxes


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BBB888
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PostSubject: Re: Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!   Wed May 16, 2018 10:25 am

Appeal for wisdom and hope you dont mind me piggy-backing on this oil thread.
My 2014 with 5500 miles went for a 200 mile ride today and discovered an oil leak on the right hand side seems to come from the area around the airbox/carb, I think originates from beneath the tank and 'inside' between the engine and the carb/inlet and then spreads out and down onto the cases below. Not enough to blow onto my right leg but would like to know what might be the cause and what is the remedy - does anyone know? Seen this before?
I'm just not sure what it is and what needs doing to resolve it. I am mechanically inept so any help/guidance much appreciated.
I have some photos but not sure how to post them - maybe as a newer member i am not yet authorized to post photos........
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Oil leak around Cylinder Heads @ only 250 miles!!
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