Michelin Pilot Road 4's just fitted

Metzeler can suck my balls. wrote:

Gee Steak I'd be careful what you say, a big hairy guy named Metzler may take you up on that. Mind you I have to agree those Metzlers that came on my G11 were downright crap. I have ridden on some cheap rubber before, Chen Shins, and they were like race rubber in comparison.

One thing that is part of my tire evaluation equation is $$$ and when my Angel front wore out I was presented with a Pilot 3 that was $100 less than anything out there. End of decision. In the rain I just take it a wee bit easier than I would with the Angel but in the dry it grips as good as it gets.

As has been said already, buy a tire that suits you and your riding style. My buddy has a GRiSO with PR4's and they do have a different feel than the Angels. He loves the feel of the PR4's but I find the have a different feedback to what I like. Mind you for $100 less I would find them most suitable.

I loved Metzelers bias ply tires but I only used one set of Radials. I have been doing Dunlop Q3s but they only last 3000 miles for the rear.
I like hearing how the PR4s turn in

Interesting feedback. As I mentioned, I don't have anything to compare the Z8 Metzelers to, but one thing I have noticed when riding is the lack of feel from the front end. I know, this could be that my suspension settings are all over the shop, but even when the bike is settled on a smooth road through a turn, I really struggle to "feel" what the front tyre is doing. I know this could be down to a variety of variables, but perhaps the Metzelers have something to do with it.

I love tire threads.

Mostly because, as a retired lawyer, I admire polished BS.  

And, of course, I am always prepared to toss in my own feeble and foggy anecdata to the mix.

But, kidding aside, purely technical tests, even when unquestionably objective -- hardly a given -- are not especially helpful.  I am not entirely sure that the "numbers" alone, even when accompanied by the comments of an experienced rider on a machine I'll never ride to limits I'll (hopefully! ) never see are particularly useful to me.

Instead, I much prefer what one gets on rider forums, especially as here, that focus on one motorcycle.

Naturally, we are all different in size, shape, weight, experience, "daring," etc. after etc., but this is all way more helpful to me -- even when disagreements arise -- than are charts and "real" data.

So, with that in mind, I have to chime in and vote with those who find the Metzler (Z6 OEM on my 2010, anyway, and also delivered with my Norge) disappointing in virtually every aspect that matters to me.  They seemed (to me) to have cooked away in the first 1500 miles whatever their out-of-the-box performance that came with them.  The rears (and, a slow learner with the three sets I put on the Norge) corded at 4K miles.   Mileage is way less important to me than performance safety, but it is not insiginicant.

Interestingly, I found the Pirelli AST's (on Norge and GRiSO) not much better except in staying "fit" longer.

I try very hard not to be a "Ford, Chevy, or Dodge" sort of brand-loyal guy, and willing switch to whatever seems right.  Despite that, I do find myself gravitating to Michelin motorcycle tires for my stable.

The MPR3's were stupendous on my Norge (and lasted 7K or so), and I have had it at the limits of my competence window (a small piece of glass, btw ) in all sorts of road, weather, and load conditions.

So, when it came time recently to reshoe both GRiSO and Norge, I went with the MPR4.  "Regular" for the GRiSO; GT for Norge.

In retrospect, given what (I think) I know about compound mix -- MP3 = SMS & MP4 = MHM -- perhaps I should have put MP3's, rather than 4's on the GRiSO.

I have about 1K miles on the Norge's new 4's now, with zero signs of wear on front or rear, and the handling on wet and dry, two-up -- and with all the of the 6-week-safari accoutrements Kathi brings along! -- has been confidence inspiring.

I only have about 200 on the GRiSO, so jury is still out, tho I intend to ride it to Illinois for roller work in two weeks, so will have a better idea then of how the beast handles in the great roads between here and Athens, Ohio, before the cornfield flats begin. When I'm droning for 400 miles between cornfields, I'm sure I'll appreciate the hard centers.

Bill

frypan wrote:

It is interesting that some people get far more mileage out of their front than the rear, for me it is the opposite, I burn up the front before the rear. For some reason it is always the left side of the front tire. The centre will still have meat but the side about halfway over goes bald.  

Doubt very much I ride as quick as you - but my front tire wears in exactly the same place.

I have noticed when riding is the lack of feel from the front end. I know, this could be that my suspension settings are all over the shop wrote:

Suspension setting adjustment on a GRiSO is the first order of business before you can really evaluate a tire. The bike's stock settings are so far off the mark it isn't funny. Case in point, I was at the local dealer last Saturday and ran into a fellow that had a 1400 California. He said he had a Tenni GRiSO but he found it twitchy in the corners. He changed the tires but it didn't help. He sold the GRiSO and bought the California, but still has a soft spot for the GRiSO.

I had him sit on a new 2015 GRiSO on the floor and then sit on my GRiSO. We are about the same weight 175-180 lbs. He noticed immediately the new GRiSO had no suspension movement (Sag) and felt like sitting on a plank but when sitting on mine he said it felt supple. I told him that with the stock suspension that stiff it is not doing its job keeping the tires planted on the road. Besides beating the crap out of your kidneys I said this would be be most evident in the corners, especially ones that have any undulation or even the bit of gravel because the stiff suspension is going to make the bike bounce up and down or judder which changes the weight placed on the tires and changes the steering geometry, hence you get a very twitchy feeling bike. It is a simplistic explanation because suspension is a bit more complicated than that but a quick back to back ride was more than enough to entice him back to considering another GRiSO.

First order of business set your Sag to approx 25 - 30 mm (1"- 1.2") front and back!

Brent, after you set your sag try pushing your forks up to 6th line. My bike steers so good there.

It's a funny thing this suspension business. I've read what seems like 1,000 times how soft the stock GRiSO rear spring is. On my bike though, the preload is wound right down to what looks like it's maximum setting (as it came from the factory), and when I sit on the bike it barely moves. I'm 80kgs (or 177 pounds). When out riding the back end bucks around like a bloody mule over bumps. A decent bump will see my arse leave the seat.......not joking. I've backed off the damping a bit, but not much difference.

I might be totally wrong, but I reckon I need less preload, not more. That said, I can appreciate the problem that presents itself in terms of there being very little travel on the rear shock between the top and bottom bump stops. If the rear sags too much, it'll be smashing the bump stops to pieces.

In terms of the fronts, yes, quite a few people suggest pushing the forks up through the clamps by an extra line or two. Might try that as well.

Will add suspension tuning (sag adjustment) to my "to do" list first of all though before stuffing around more with the other stuff.

PM sent Brent

Brent
I have read that soft spring stuff and have not figured where that was coming from. I have set up 3 Grisos and every one of them needed the rear springing preload to be reduced dramatically. With the stock setting the rear end just bounces over EVERYTHING. It is a kidney pounder. Playing with the dampening settings is a joke because the suspension isn't working. It is akin to putting compression and rebound adjustments on a wheelbarrow.
I reduced my front preload by turning the spring compression nuts on the front forks to the 6th line. That gave me about 30mm of sag up front. I screwed out the spring compression rings about 3 turns on the rear shock and got about the same sag on the rear. With those settings I can do an 800km day easily without feeling beat to crap. Better yet is that I can ride the wheels off the bike in the twisties and not worry about the road condition. I have hit every form of rough undulating road with the bike leaned right over and I don't even get the slightest flinch from the bike, rock stable.

frypan wrote:

Brent
I have read that soft spring stuff and have not figured where that was coming from. I have set up 3 Grisos and every one of them needed the rear springing preload to be reduced dramatically. With the stock setting the rear end just bounces over EVERYTHING. It is a kidney pounder. Playing with the dampening settings is a joke because the suspension isn't working. It is akin to putting compression and rebound adjustments on a wheelbarrow.
I reduced my front preload by turning the spring compression nuts on the front forks to the 6th line. That gave me about 30mm of sag up front. I screwed out the spring compression rings about 3 turns on the rear shock and got about the same sag on the rear. With those settings I can do an 800km day easily without feeling beat to crap. Better yet is that I can ride the wheels off the bike in the twisties and not worry about the road condition. I have hit every form of rough undulating road with the bike leaned right over and I don't even get the slightest flinch from the bike, rock stable.

frypan have you tried or do you have an opinion on a Matris shock? made a big difference for me
Keener

or the Penske?

The linkage between tires and suspension is clear enough, but how did this thread morph completely from MPR4's to suspension?  Shocking.  

Bill

Bill Hagan wrote:

The linkage between tires and suspension is clear enough, but how did this thread morph completely from MPR4's to suspension?  Shocking.  

Bill

I agree, Bill. But all this talk about shocks is still absorbing.

I agree this thread has morphed ...but in the end I believe that you need to make sure your suspension is working correctly before you go off trying to fix a handing problem that is suspension related. If the bike feels twitchy or squirmy, it may not be your tires that are the culprit.

I run stock suspension. I find it works fine for most of my riding. I used to do track days and I can see the benefit of upgraded suspension when you are pushing to the limit. On the street I am limited to riding to the point of grinding my boots to crap and that is with me sliding them back on the pegs with just the balls of my feet resting on the pegs. I find the GRiSO pegs just a bit too low. I can't afford to keep buying boots.

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Oh no now this thread has really gone off topic.

I can imagine how much better it would be with a decent rear shock for you Frypan
i found the stock shock to be mostly unresponsive to adjustment with backing off the preload as you say the best alternative .
But then again i may outweigh you by + lbs as i am 220lbs in gear.
as to your boots...toes on your pegs will stop that kinda wear...eh