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muzhik
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PostSubject: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:39 am

Anyone know anything good/bad/indifferent about Pro Italia outside LA?  I know I've read a little about them here, but a search for "pro italia" or "PI" doesn't bear much useful.  

They have a low-mile Tenni listed at $10K (WAY too much).  Just curious if they have a reputation as complete sheisters, or if they're on the up and up.

Doubtful it's been rollerized.  So there's another decision.  If I buy, do I fly out and ride a flattie cross-country?  Have them rollerize it (likely at my full expense, since it may not show any damage at just over 1,000 miles)?  or pay to have it crated and shipped from one coast to the other?
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pokeyjoe
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:04 am

Yeah, that bike has been there awhile. They just lowered the price a little. They were asking almost as much as a new 2015. If it has rollers, you may be able to justify that price. However, since it probably does not, you should be able to get them to lower the price. Will the sales people know about the roller issue? Doubtful. They did give me way too much money for a Dorsoduro I traded in on my V7. As soon as they saw the Ohlins parts, they thought it had extra value (it took them a long time to sell it).

If you are paying cash, you might be able to get a good deal. Like I said, it's been there awhile and they are probably getting anxious to unload it.

I'll let someone else comment about whether or not you should ride it across country. Since it's a southern California bike, you might be OK.
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:20 am

muzhik wrote:
Anyone know anything good/bad/indifferent about Pro Italia outside LA?  I know I've read a little about them here, but a search for "pro italia" or "PI" doesn't bear much useful.  

They have a low-mile Tenni listed at $10K (WAY too much).  Just curious if they have a reputation as complete sheisters, or if they're on the up and up.

Doubtful it's been rollerized.  So there's another decision.  If I buy, do I fly out and ride a flattie cross-country?  Have them rollerize it (likely at my full expense, since it may not show any damage at just over 1,000 miles)?  or pay to have it crated and shipped from one coast to the other?

First, "what John said."

Second, if you do buy that one, not sure what "low miles" means [I didn't see ad], but ...

(a) Mine showed damage at 12K; others here much sooner.

(b) FWIW, my brother just paid $800 to have M-I use these folks to ship his Norge from Seattle to Atlanta:  https://motorcycleshippers.com Impressive handling, and dealer should get some sort of discount over individual.

(b) Part of a "buy" deal, IMO, might include their service shop confirming flat tappets (or not) and getting Piaggio to pay for parts and (is it still possibly in warranty?) labor?  Piaggio has by now surely admitted to itself that damage is inevitable, thus the "approval" is likely becoming less of a hurdle than previously.  

(c) As lunatic as it may sound (and ... uhh ... be jocolor ), I'm serious when I say that I would have it shipped to M-I or RFC and have Dave Richardson's crew or Jim Barron, respectively, do the rollerizing.  Then, fly & ride. cheers  While I retrieved mine from RFC by trailer, that 700 or so miles is a great ride ... OK, OK, after the first 300 miles of cornfields. Rolling Eyes

Bill

P.S.  Check your PM's.
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MalG
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:42 pm

muzhik wrote:
Anyone know anything good/bad/indifferent about Pro Italia outside LA?  I know I've read a little about them here, but a search for "pro italia" or "PI" doesn't bear much useful.  

They are now known as AMS Ducati.
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muzhik
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:02 pm

MalG wrote:
muzhik wrote:
Anyone know anything good/bad/indifferent about Pro Italia outside LA?  I know I've read a little about them here, but a search for "pro italia" or "PI" doesn't bear much useful.  

They are now known as AMS Ducati.

Seems that's only the online sales side of the business, but perhaps I'm misreading what I can find regarding that transaction. Regardless, by appearances it seems the bike is in California vice Dallas.

Thanks for the info, though.

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Grisonut
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:38 pm

At $10 Grands, they're gonna keep that bike for a long time... Rolling Eyes
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LBC Tenni
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:57 pm

I recently approached P-I's service dept. about rollerising my 2011. They claimed to know nothing about the tappet problem. I think the truth is they just don't want to be bothered. They're selling Ducatis like hotcakes, so that is their main focus. I took my bike to Thousand Oaks for the job and it was the best dealer service experience ever. Screw P-I. They are a Ducati shop. I no longer trust them with my GRiSO.
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muzhik
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:32 am

LBC Tenni wrote:
I recently approached P-I's service dept. about rollerising my 2011. They claimed to know nothing about the tappet problem. I think the truth is they just don't want to be bothered. They're selling Ducatis like hotcakes, so that is their main focus. I took my bike to Thousand Oaks for the job and it was the best dealer service experience ever. Screw P-I. They are a Ducati shop. I no longer trust them with my GRiSO.

Much appreciated, LBC.  Seems like I'll probably have to stick to my guns and my gut on this one.  With riding season coming up, temptation is creeping in to pick up something soon rather than wait for the right deal to come along.

BUT if I'm spending anywhere near 10 grand, AND willing to shop on the other coast, there's a '15 Rosso demo bike near Sacramento, at Elk Grove, that's also been advertised for awhile at $10,300...
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:32 am

The Tenni is desired by some (fuctifino), so maybe they reckon they can gouge the buyer? Buy the Rosso. It's a better bike for the same money.
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Triman023
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:54 am

My son and I went to the suspension clinic at Pro Italia on Saturday. After that we took a look at the new Triumphs in their other showroom up the street. I looked at the Tenni, it says 1,000 miles on the tag. I talked to the sales guy and told him its expensive for a bike with flat tappets, he admitted that it would have to be updated. I asked him about the milage and he said the PO had to move to New York and didn't ride it. It looks close to new bike condition.
I bought a new 2013 GRiSO from them. They were friendly and helpful, and open to negotiation. I had problems with tank venting and the speedo sensor. Both issues were handeled quickly and completed with no drama. Yes, they are mostly focused on Ducati, but they also have Aprilla, MV, Triumph and Moto Guzzi. I have only heard complementary remarks from the staff about the GRiSO, and have talked to several V7 buyers who got loaner bikes when their bikes were in for lengthy warranty repairs.
I don't doubt that they can do the conversion. Will it be expensive? At $125 an hour, you bet!
The Tenni is expensive because its got 1,000 miles on it and its a Tenni, not a lot of those with 1,000 miles on them.
If I wanted it I would start a lengthy negotiation process, involving the roller conversion. If some idiot bought it out from under me I would look elsewhere.
Pro Italia is a successful dealer that sells exotic toys, to people willing to pay the money, they are not a discount dealer. If I needed a job done that took a lot of shop time I would trailer my bike to an independent shop that could do the work at a more reasonable price. I don't ask the dealer to do major things, thats just me.

By the way, the suspension clinic was excellent! They brought Dave Moss in and the adjustment + advise was really first rate. My GRiSO and my sons Triumph ride much better now. $50 well spent. This is the kind of stuff Pro Italia does well.
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muzhik
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:41 am

Triman023 wrote:
My son and I went to the suspension clinic at Pro Italia on Saturday. After that we took a look at the new Triumphs in their other showroom up the street. I looked at the Tenni, it says 1,000 miles on the tag. I talked to the sales guy and told him its expensive for a bike with flat tappets, he admitted that it would have to be updated. I asked him about the milage and he said the PO had to move to New York and didn't ride it. It looks close to new bike condition.
I bought a new 2013 GRiSO from them. They were friendly and helpful, and open to negotiation. I had problems with tank venting and the speedo sensor. Both issues were handeled quickly and completed with no drama. Yes, they are mostly focused on Ducati, but they also have Aprilla, MV, Triumph and Moto Guzzi. I have only heard complementary remarks from the staff about the GRiSO, and have talked to several V7 buyers who got loaner bikes when their bikes were in for lengthy warranty repairs.
I don't doubt that they can do the conversion. Will it be expensive? At $125 an hour, you bet!
The Tenni is expensive because its got 1,000 miles on it and its a Tenni, not a lot of those with 1,000 miles on them.
If I wanted it I would start a lengthy negotiation process, involving the roller conversion. If some idiot bought it out from under me I would look elsewhere.
Pro Italia is a successful dealer that sells exotic toys, to people willing to pay the money, they are not a discount dealer. If I needed a job done that took a lot of shop time I would trailer my bike to an independent shop that could do the work at a more reasonable price. I don't ask the dealer to do major things, thats just me.

By the way, the suspension clinic was excellent! They brought Dave Moss in and the adjustment + advise was really first rate. My GRiSO and my sons Triumph ride much better now. $50 well spent. This is the kind of stuff Pro Italia does well.

Excellent feedback, Triman! Thank you! I'll find out this week just how much they're willing to negotiate.
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Triman023
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:53 am

Muzhik
I would ask about service records first. Making it clear that the bike has a problem that needs to be corrected. It aint the only Tenni in the sea...
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muzhik
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:02 pm

Triman023 wrote:
Muzhik
I would ask about service records first. Making it clear that the bike has a problem that needs to be corrected. It aint the only Tenni in the sea...

Already have. They're supposed to be getting back to me tomorrow on whether or not it's had a roller cam conversion (spoiler alert! highly improbable!).

At 1,041 miles, there's not much else to have been done, service-wise. It's just now run in. Initial fluids change and maybe checking valve clearance is about all that should have been done, right? I suppose according to the manual it's about time to change the brake and fuel lines, but that's arguably unnecessary.
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:50 pm

muzhik wrote:


****

I suppose according to the manual it's about time to change the brake and fuel lines, but that's arguably unnecessary.


At 1041 miles?

A GRiSO manual says that?! Shocked

Bill
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muzhik
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:53 pm

Sorry for the confusion.  Actually the GRiSO manual says 932 miles Smile  (1500 km) for all the fluid changes and initial round of service after the run in.

The bike at P-I has 1,041 miles on it.

The bit about changing brake fluid and fuel pipes is at the 4 year mark, by the manual.
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LBC Tenni
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:00 pm

Another point to consider, the way Piaggio is handling the tappet problem, there will be lots of Tenni color body parts available in years to come if you buy a newer bike now and later decide to swap out for the Tenni color. I'm with Beetle. Go for the rossa.
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muzhik
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:13 pm

LBC Tenni wrote:
Another point to consider, the way Piaggio is handling the tappet problem, there will be lots of Tenni color body parts available in years to come if you buy a newer bike now and later decide to swap out for the Tenni color. I'm with Beetle. Go for the rossa.

Fair point.  And one I hadn't given much thought to.  I'll perhaps try to find a Rosso closer to home, though Smile

UNLESS P-I is willing to go ~$7,500 (doubtful, but maybe worth a shot).  But then there's still the logistics of getting it from CA to MD - then the inevitability of doing a conversion.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:43 pm

At 1041 miles, it's doubtful there be any naked eye damage to the tappets. I'd bet that the dealer won't pull a cam box anyway. You won't get any love from Piaggio without clear damage and without dealer support.
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muzhik
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:54 pm

beetle wrote:
At 1041 miles, it's doubtful there be any naked eye damage to the tappets. I'd bet that the dealer won't pull a cam box anyway. You won't get any love from Piaggio without clear damage and without dealer support.

Concur with all, Beetle. I'm prepared to bite the bullet and order/install my own roller conversion kit if/when I pick up a Tenni. If I wind up going with the on in Cali, and ultimately riding it coast-to-coast in my upcoming month off, it could become a very "Zen and the Art of..." experience.
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muzhik
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:34 pm

And the verdict is... drumroll

They're full of shit!

In reply to my query about whether or not this bike has had a roller cam conversion (CLEAR question, with those specific words) they tell me the following:

Since 2010 the 8v engine has had the updated valve train...

Now, it may be that the DLC and flat tappet metallurgy was revised in 2010, but that hasn't gone so much according to plan, now has it? We're seeing plenty of failures, and the only medicine is rollerization.

For P-I to be in denial or outright try and bullshit me when I clearly know the specifics of what I'm asking is a HUGE RED FLAG. There will be other Tennis. c'est la vie!
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Triman023
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:44 pm

Sooo glad I bought a 2013
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:45 pm

The ignorance! Mad

Good on you for digging. As you say, there'll be others.
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:04 pm

beetle wrote:
The ignorance! Mad

Good on you for digging. As you say, there'll be others.

Incredible.

Bill

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pokeyjoe
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:27 pm

But not a surprise.
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muzhik
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PostSubject: Re: Pro Italia   Pro Italia Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:32 pm

I replied with a bit of education and a somewhat lowball offer. Doubt I'll ever hear back Smile
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