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 Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!

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Do you want a smooth idle?
Yes. I want my idle smooth, like me.
72%
 72% [ 39 ]
No. I'm a manly man. Let it shake!
28%
 28% [ 15 ]
Total Votes : 54
 

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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:58 pm

Ran the modified map today (70 miles total in stop start and rural stuff) & I think it is smoother but also realised I never spent much time 'observing' it before with the old map (and normally I'm wearing earplugs etc).....I think it's not helped by fact I recently spend lot of time tuning the air bleeds & throttle balance to get the idle both lower and more stable so I already think it's smoother before I even started the ignition timing....

.....Long story short I'll have to spend some time 'observing it at idle and then switch back the map....either way it wasn't an OMG moment so it must be subtle (or I am not subtle is more more likely)
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LBC Tenni
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:43 pm

Smoother map loaded and tested.

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Definitely less shaking at idle. Love it. Thanks Mark & Meinolf for improving on a map that was already excellent! cheers

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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:45 pm

cheers



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bross
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Sat May 05, 2018 2:52 pm

Would like to try the updated map when available as well Mark, thanks.
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Phang
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Sun May 06, 2018 5:47 am

that handle bar is almost standstill
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george5421
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Mon May 07, 2018 7:24 am

bahamazoo wrote:





speaking of vibrating twins...

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That's a sad statement about global childhood/adult obesity!!

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sideshowbob
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Mon May 07, 2018 7:44 am

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Fasting gone wrong!
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2highlander
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Sun May 13, 2018 12:15 am

Hey Beetle, I will give Your numbers a try on my brand new 1400ccm converted GRiSO. I've also been playing around with TunerPro and immediately set up an appropriate XDF file. Veeeery good stuff this!
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Sun May 13, 2018 12:22 am

Apart from the barrels and pistons what’s been done to it? If it’s got some silly flat tappet cam or a load of bogus air filter and open pipe nonsense on it Mark’s map would be irrelevant. Even a different pipe set up will render another map unsuitable.

Pete
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BB43215
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Sun May 13, 2018 2:24 am

G1100 update too?

Sent from Topic'it App
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2highlander
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Sun May 13, 2018 4:50 am

Only pistons and cylinders were changed and a new back rooting for oil circulation was installed. My GRiSO was rollerized in September 2017, all parts concerning this are still the same like the rest of the bike too: BMC air filter with open airbox, BOS double gun, Daes mapping. OK, I know Your opinion about opening the airbox or using others than stock filters. The combination of open airbox, BMC filter and Daes mapping is Roland's torque kit. I bought the bike having installed this and actually it's ok for me.

Spark plugs after conversion look good, the engine is running fine. Smooth throttle answer, pulling the cable is right to the point, no jerky behavior when riding at constant speed.

I didn't want to install a whole new map, but try the new idle ignition numbers for a smoother running of the engine when idling. Just to look how this works.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Sun May 13, 2018 5:02 am

So the crank and reciprocating mass wasn’t balanced?
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Sun May 13, 2018 5:05 am

BB43215 wrote:
G1100 update too?

Nah. 2V engines got bulk advance at idle.

GRiSO

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Sport

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2highlander
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Sun May 13, 2018 6:46 am

My GRiSO is a rollerized 2012 8v 1200 SE.

The piston were balanced, the crank not. Vibs in the handlebars are likely more than before. If you don't have a direct comparison you won't notice that or think tb's are not balanced well. After all, my bike is not ridden like being on the racetrack. Maybe it's not perfect in your point of view but Stefan knows what he is doing after having setting up about 50 bikes. I think it's still good for 100k kilometers
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pauldaytona
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Sun May 13, 2018 9:41 am

I was looking for idle fuel, and Meinolf found that too. After the rollerupdate my idle was not around lambda 1 anymore, more like 0.89. I just wanted it to idle on 1. So the table at 4D7B0 was the one

Values are factors applied added to Main Fuel in the rpm range 1000 to 2700/~2780 rpm if TPS is closed (Status 7)

A hysteresis is applied, when increasing rpm the addition stops at ~2780rpm, when decreasing rpm the change occurs at 2700rpm. Meinolf

I just multiplied all values with 0.9 and got my lambda back at 1.0

The horizontal legend is just a guess. legend from 4C61C
vertical legend is from 4d7A0

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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Sun May 13, 2018 1:29 pm

I did some testing with the "idle fuel" table. That table affects fuel up to 4500 RPM. I think the legends for both axes are incorrect.


Edit: fixed typos


Last edited by beetle on Sun May 13, 2018 3:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pauldaytona
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Sun May 13, 2018 2:45 pm

I compared the table in a few 5am maps, all different. The rpm legend changes a bit over maps.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Sun May 13, 2018 3:10 pm

2highlander wrote:
My GRiSO is a rollerized 2012 8v 1200 SE.

The piston were balanced, the crank not. Vibs in the handlebars are likely more than before. If you don't have a direct comparison you won't notice that or think tb's are not balanced well. After all, my bike is not ridden like being on the racetrack. Maybe it's not perfect in your point of view but Stefan knows what he is doing after having setting up about 50 bikes. I think it's still good for 100k kilometers

Thing is vibration is wasted energy that absorbs power. How much will depend on the out of balance factor. It’s not about comfort or *vibration* per-se it’s about minimising parasitic losses. The factory put a lot of effort into balancing the 1400’s, it’s the main reason they are so smooth once the secondary plug is quenched. That wasn’t just to make them comfortable, it was to minimise losses.

Pete
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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Sun May 13, 2018 4:33 pm

This improvement will work on Fat Grisos too ?
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Sun May 13, 2018 4:46 pm

Fat GRiSO is good. Only appears to be an issue for regular 8V GRiSO.


Fat GRiSO:

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2highlander
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Sun May 13, 2018 11:35 pm

We have a lot of ignition tables here now, that's quite irritating. Now, what is the correct one for a 1400ccm and which one for a stock GRiSO later than 2010?
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2highlander
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Mon May 14, 2018 2:43 am

Pete

The comfort thing doesn't hurt me at all, my old LeMans 1 is much more shaky. The Guzzi V2s do live, this is a main reason why I do like them. If you find that disturbing you will have to move to a japanese inline four. You may not expect the vibs to make my GRiSO a rattle&shake bike now. If any, they subtle appear at mid range, at the lower end I would state the bike even runs smoother than before.

Regarding efficiency, I think Guzzi engines are far away from perfect, the power swallowed by vibs I consider as a minor thing in opposite to what they could do with crank bearings etc.. Or what substainly increased torque does to gearbox and CARC. At my rear tire I can already see the effect


Last edited by 2highlander on Mon May 14, 2018 2:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Mon May 14, 2018 2:47 am

Good grief!

Look, it’s pointless continuing this. I’m glad you are happy with your bike.

Pete
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2highlander
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Mon May 14, 2018 3:03 am

Pete,

Shit, I wished my English would be better to avoid to be misunderstood.

I do respect Your knowledge and philosophy and I like it. If You lived near me You would have been the one to do the conversion.

It's done know and we will see what problems will come along with the conversion. So seen, it does make sense to continue this and if You find that interesting I'll keep You updated.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Shake it like a Polaroid picture? Not any more!   Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:32 pm

Would all you voted in the affirmative, please email me. I can't remember whom is who.

Except Pete. I know him. Very Happy



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