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 Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets?

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sidrat
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PostSubject: Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets?   Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets? Icon_minitime1Thu May 24, 2018 8:59 am

I have just come back from almost 10 days away on the GRiSO, first in Wales with our UK Cabal and then a trip around France.

I noticed three things when i collected it from its recent service from a new shop.

1/ They overfilled the oil, i took out 300mm and it was still slightly above the full mark, this has caused an oil leak on the left hand side of the bike, i am guessing its coming from somewhere under the tank and has, over the last 2,500 miles finally stopped as i presume it has burned off any excess. I will investigate, there didn't seem to be much/any in the airbox when it was leaking.
2/ The tappets were slightly louder than normal, i know there are different settings, so i am gong to reset them and in fainess i am being picky with this.
3/ The biggie is that every now and again there is noise from the top of the right hand cylinder, it souds like a cross between no oil in the rockers shafts and a blown exhaust header. During the holiday it would happen once or twice a day, i only noticed it when i started the bike, or was riding slow enought to hear it (walking pace), the noise would go after a while (no science in the time) and sometimes the bike started and ran perfectly. There were no performance issues, but it sounded bloody awfull. It does it when the ambient temperature and bike temperature was hot or cold.
4/ Finally there was somtimes a sound like an exhaust shield rattleing, i could almost get it to do this at specific RPM, and i thought at one time it was the tappets resonating, but at others sounded as though something was loose.

I am not asking for any help at the moment, although all is welcome, i am just going to see if i can find the cause and whether anyone else has had similar issues to short circuit my sleuthing.
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motor-timothy
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PostSubject: Re: Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets?   Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets? Icon_minitime1Thu May 24, 2018 11:20 am

#3 sounds scary, hopefully its nothing too bad!

Mine was overfilled as well by the dealer by around 300ml. I suppose dealers typically just go with the prescribed amount of oil and don't check the dipstick? I did notice right after taking out the excess oil the cylinders were making a louder noise than before, oddly.

Rattle can be lots of things I suppose. In my case it was caused by the headlight. The headlight rim is attached to the top of the headlight bucket with 2 'hooks' protruding from the inside of the bucket. These hooks should have 2 o-rings around them to prevent the rim from rattling against the bucket. Might be worth checking that?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets?   Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets? Icon_minitime1Thu May 24, 2018 2:31 pm

Time to pull the sump and spacer as it sounds like the spacer to block gasket has blown out causing a loss of pressure.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets?   Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets? Icon_minitime1Thu May 24, 2018 2:46 pm

I had #3 on my way home from the Budgie. On the left cylinder. I too, thought it was a blown header gasket. It started after I stopped for fuel. I checked the header nuts were tight (they were), and when I started the engine again, it wasn't there. I had to stop once more for fuel, and expected it again, but it didn't happen. It made a god awful din.



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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets?   Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets? Icon_minitime1Thu May 24, 2018 2:56 pm

If it happens again Mark bring it back over and we’ll double check the sump gasket but the 1400 has the later, thicker, gasket.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets?   Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets? Icon_minitime1Thu May 24, 2018 3:03 pm

I thought this sump gasket issue also caused the oil light to come on? I had no lights.



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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets?   Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets? Icon_minitime1Thu May 24, 2018 3:31 pm

Not always. WCB, (Doug.) had the problem on his Stelvio and the only way it manifested itself was the camchains rattling when hot due to pressure taking a long time to come up and fill the plunger reservoirs.
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Grisonut
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PostSubject: Re: Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets?   Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets? Icon_minitime1Thu May 24, 2018 5:09 pm

When my 2013 did it, no light came on but the knock was there...
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets?   Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets? Icon_minitime1Thu May 24, 2018 5:15 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
Not always. WCB, (Doug.) had the problem on his Stelvio and the only way it manifested itself was the camchains rattling when hot due to pressure taking a long time to come up and fill the plunger reservoirs.


Hmm. Oil may have been very hot. I had the cooler blocked from when I left Dubbo to Forbes (where this occurred).

scratch



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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets?   Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets? Icon_minitime1Thu May 24, 2018 5:19 pm

When things get dire, then the lights come on. In the meantime, preventative action (or at least investigation) is required. Snot a big job.
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Nobleswood
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PostSubject: Re: Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets?   Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets? Icon_minitime1Thu May 24, 2018 7:18 pm

My vote is for the sump gasket. I had the same loud tappet noise, on & off, with no oil light blinking.

It's a simple & quick fix even if it's just to eliminate that being a cause
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LBC Tenni
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PostSubject: Re: Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets?   Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets? Icon_minitime1Thu May 24, 2018 9:01 pm

sidrat wrote:
4/ Finally there was somtimes a sound like an exhaust shield rattleing, i could almost get it to do this at specific RPM, and i thought at one time it was the tappets resonating, but at others sounded as though something was loose.

I have this on my Norge. Manifests only under acceleration at mid RPM/gears. Disappears at speed in higher gears.  I’ve had all the plastic off and can’t find anything loose, so must be emanating from somewhere in the powertrain. Performance is great, but it is a little unsettling. scratch
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets?   Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets? Icon_minitime1Fri May 25, 2018 4:40 am

Thanks guys, so i started looking last night and this is what i found.

1/ there is no longer an oil leak, so i will rip the tank off over the weekend and see where it was coming from.
2/ The tappet adjustements were all out, three sets being too wide and one exhaust set being too closed.
3/ Both plugs were not even hand tight!, i simply undid them with a finger and thumb with no pressure whatsoever. I wondered if the sound i heard was an intermitent plug leak?? The sound is similar to a leaking exhaust? but then with a helmet and earlugs its not easy to listen to! I started the bike three times and warmed it up, it sounds as sweet as a nut.
4/ Although i have "fixed" the headlight surround, i have recently been playing with fairings so that could have easily re-occured, i will re-do it ths weekend.



I can pull the sump and look at the gasket, i am sure i have seen pictures here of what i am looking for. When i ran the bike last night it was running on the sidestand, which given the stelvio shock means it leans over a little further, however the noise has appeared while riding and stationary with the bike off the stand. THe problem i have is that i have no idea how to reproduce the problem, next time it does it (if it does) i will stop and have a proper listen.

No lights have come on, and the bike runs fine.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets?   Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets? Icon_minitime1Fri May 25, 2018 5:09 am

The sump gasket isn’t the problem. It’s the gasket betwixt the spacer and the block as this seals the oil galleries that blows out. Just be aware.

Pete
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets?   Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets? Icon_minitime1Fri May 25, 2018 5:26 am

Thanks Pete so i need a new one of each then.

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets?   Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets? Icon_minitime1Fri May 25, 2018 5:28 am

That be them.
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josv
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PostSubject: Re: Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets?   Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets? Icon_minitime1Mon May 06, 2019 1:33 pm

hello Pete, i heard the same noise after rollerising my GRiSO , when its cold, its running perfect when hot a rattling noise at the right side, i checked the connecting rod bearings, they were perfect after 42000 km. i thought perhaps the piston touched something , but i used the same thickness 0.85 mm head gasket. So dismantling oil pump etc. and the upper gasket shows damage nearby the oil holes, so i order new ones and hopefully it solves the problem. Thanks for the hint to this problem, Gr. jos
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wardest
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PostSubject: Re: Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets?   Are they any top end problems apart from the flat tappets? Icon_minitime1Mon May 06, 2019 10:14 pm

#4 The Exhaust shield noise.

I get a strange rattle / harmonic on my bike. At somewhere around 4000 rpm under certain loads.
I always thought it was the inner tube of the exhaust header pipe vibrating against the outer.
A friend with a GRiSO SE 2017 does similar.
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