12425 - Established June, 2013 - all GRiSO, all the time...
 
HomeFAQRegisterLog in
Share | 
 

 When safe to reflash?

Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2, 3  Next
AuthorMessage
algebr
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
avatar

Posts : 18
Join date : 2018-04-29

PostSubject: When safe to reflash?    Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:21 pm

I have a 2017 GRiSO SE with about 500 miles on it.

I read about the reflash offered, is the primarily motivation people are doing it is for a smoother low RPM responsiveness? Are there any other benefits? Anyone got better fuel mileage out of it? I'm getting 17MPG in San Francisco driving, which is very low.

Is it safe to do under 1,000 miles?

Thanks
Back to top Go down
sideshowbob
Tiradritto
Tiradritto
avatar

Posts : 356
Join date : 2017-08-06
Age : 64

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:37 pm

Overall rideability improvement with the new maps. Everyone says the mileage is better, I never check mine. Valves must be adjusted properly for the map. I did mine at about 500 miles, along with a Mistral high pipe. Couldn't be happier!
Back to top Go down
marcdavo
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
avatar

Posts : 17
Join date : 2017-09-26

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:54 pm

g'day algebr,

Definitely a big improvement over original map. Throttle body balance and valve adjustment plus new map to suit your exhaust.
I have pretty much same setup as sideshowbob above and as he says, couldn't be happier with the improvements. Well worth the effort.
There is quite a bit of info re maps and how to install them etc on this site.  I doubt it matters when the remap is done..brand new or ten thousand miles..its just a re-map.
cheers.
Back to top Go down
Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO
avatar

Posts : 5782
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 61

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:28 pm

17mpg in any conditions is just wrong. I’d be looking at the tune before anything else. Has anything been done to it since you bought it?

While a remap will greatly improve things, (If it’s the right map.) in terms of performance and economy on a well tuned bike it will make no difference at all on a bike that is untuned or in other ways compromised.

First step is a full tune up by someone who knows what they are doing. After that? Remap it.
Back to top Go down
algebr
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
avatar

Posts : 18
Join date : 2018-04-29

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:16 pm

Thanks everyone! Then I will flash it after getting that cable connection cord.

Nope, I bought it brand new from dealer (was sitting at dealer for some time).

Maybe I should take it in for a service? If I take it for a local service, what should I ask for?
Back to top Go down
beetle
GRiSO
GRiSO
avatar

Posts : 5929
Join date : 2013-09-30

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:25 pm

At 500 miles it's almost due for it's first service, usually between 600-1000 miles. Make sure the valves are adjusted and throttle bodies balanced. They sometimes leave the factory with both air bleeds open on the throttle bodies, so ensure whomever does it pays attention.



Back to top Go down
https://www.griso.org
algebr
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
avatar

Posts : 18
Join date : 2018-04-29

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:28 pm

Excellent. I hope the throttle is a bit more grandular at low RPMs, its kinda like an on-off switch sometimes and I really have to play with clutch just to keep a nice smooth ride.
Back to top Go down
PunkScout
Carlotto
Carlotto
avatar

Posts : 38
Join date : 2017-12-02

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:08 am

algebr wrote:
Excellent. I hope the throttle is a bit more grandular at low RPMs, its kinda like an on-off switch sometimes and I really have to play with clutch just to keep a nice smooth ride.

Yours and mine both. I have a 14 that does pretty much the same thing.  I need to remap as well.

I looked into it - and this seems to be the process:
Take your machine in (or do it yourself) and have your valves adjusted.   They will synchronize your throttle bodies as well (or do it yourself, but you need a laptop  with software to reset your TPS sensor as part of the process, which is OK - the same software what will allow you to load a new map will also reset the TPS.)

Once you do that you basically need a laptop with a usb to  ODB2 cable and an adapter that converts that ODB2 to a little plug (FIAT, I think) to plug into your bike.  You run a piece of software called GuzziDiag and load a map - everyone seems to love Beetle's maps, which I /think/ you can buy from his site ... I've always gotten a little confused on this part.

So far as I can collect that is it.  Like - Ta-Da! Magical things are supposed to happen.  One of these days I need to actually do this.  I too am getting pretty sick of the super jerky low speed and cold throttle stuff.

Don't feel too bad on your fuel mileage, mine does about 20 around Dallas.

edit: Honestly- it'd be pretty cool if someone who has done it would chime in, that explanation is as much me trying to keep it straight in my head as it is conveying information.
Back to top Go down
avgpetro
Grignapoco
Grignapoco
avatar

Posts : 116
Join date : 2016-11-26
Age : 50

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:55 am

I would first be surre about potential guarantee coverage, as in the owners manual is written "Any modification of the vehicle will result in the invalidity of the guarantee".
The download to the ECU leaves a "signature", and if you ever need anything covered by guarantee, it will be up to the official service people logic, good (or bad) will, and observingness(?)
Untill the guarantee expiration, I would stick with official service point, trying to guide them to do what they actualy should, just to have recorded officialy that the required maintenance is (supposed to be) done properly.
Back to top Go down
PunkScout
Carlotto
Carlotto
avatar

Posts : 38
Join date : 2017-12-02

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:08 am

avgpetro wrote:
I would first be surre about potential guarantee coverage, as in the owners manual is written "Any modification of the vehicle will result in the invalidity of the guarantee".
The download to the ECU leaves a "signature", and if you ever need anything covered by guarantee, it will be up to the official service people logic, good (or bad) will, and observingness(?)
Untill the guarantee expiration, I would stick with official service point, trying to guide them to do what they actualy should, just to have recorded officialy that the required maintenance is (supposed to be) done properly.

I was under the impression The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act prevents them blanket killing your warranty. So if he reflashes and the transmission shits the bed, yeah - they could argue the new ECU somehow made the motor so powerful it ate his tranny - but they can't blanket kill coverage.
Back to top Go down
greywolves60
Squinternotto
Squinternotto
avatar

Posts : 2
Join date : 2018-06-18
Age : 63

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:19 pm

17 and 20 MPG - SERIOUSLY???
I've NEVER heard numbers that LOW on a modern bike. Is this even "Semi Normal" for a GRiSO?
Back to top Go down
anguscameron1966
Grignapoco
Grignapoco
avatar

Posts : 169
Join date : 2017-01-19

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:23 am

At 17 or 20 mpg you really ought to be investigating what is wrong in the set up/tuning.

Beetle map experience -

Factory map On/Off switch throttle (my main dislike).
Smoothed across the rev range, couldn't be more pleased.

Fuel economy
With the factory map I struggled to get north of an average of 33mpg often late 20's in cold weather. Since the remapping the worst I've had on a cold day in town traffic 34mpg, best I have recorded is 48mpg (all these mileages are averages read directly from the bike). I believe the mpg figure displayed on the bike is US mpg.
To convert to Imperial mpg multiply by 1.2.
Overall I'm slightly north of 10mpg better off since replacing the factory map.

Recent Update to Beetle Map.

Smooth idle.
It does just that! I much prefer it without "the big shoogle"!

My only regret was not having updated to this earlier. I delayed due to fear of screwing up the bike by going wrong somewhere, shouldn't have the process was easy.

Angus.

Back to top Go down
PunkScout
Carlotto
Carlotto
avatar

Posts : 38
Join date : 2017-12-02

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:18 am

Nothings wrong with the setup. Completely stock bike. Completely stock everything. They just get really crappy city MPG.
Back to top Go down
BB43215
Tanabuso
Tanabuso
avatar

Posts : 55
Join date : 2017-11-20
Age : 53

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:36 am

PunkScout wrote:
Nothings wrong with the setup. Completely stock bike. Completely stock everything. They just get really crappy city MPG.

I usually get around 25 – 30 mpg if I'm only in the city and 40 – 50 highway. 17 doesn't surprise me if you're sitting in traffic a lot.
Back to top Go down
https://columbuscraftcocktailtour.com
Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
avatar

Posts : 3194
Join date : 2014-03-13
Age : 64

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:15 pm

Our bikes are not really "town" bikes - they are leftovers (descendants) from the super bikes of the 60s and 70s and designed to be on the open road. Traffic kills good consumption, but is sometimes a necessary evil to get from A to B
Back to top Go down
PunkScout
Carlotto
Carlotto
avatar

Posts : 38
Join date : 2017-12-02

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:17 pm

Yeah, I did 40-45 MPG on my way back to Texas from Arkansas a few weeks ago. It gets very decent highway mileage, but it just sucks gas around town. Is part of the charm.
Back to top Go down
Converted Duc
Biondino
Biondino
avatar

Posts : 270
Join date : 2014-12-16
Age : 54

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:57 pm

I have run both the stock map with stock pipes and Beetle map with stock / aftermarket pipes. In every aspect the Beetle map is superior. Better fuel economy (although I am too lazy to actually work out figures) and much improved throttle response.
When I put my first Beetle map on my impression was omg where has my power gone, it felt so flat down low and linear right through the rev range. I soon realised that it was not that power was gone ( it is much the same) but that everything was smoooooothed out! Gone was that hideous 'two stroke' like power delivery that chimed in around 5000 rpm. Now the bike is meaty through the entire rev range and the on off throttle non existant.
The process is easy, just buy the cables connect your lap top and thats it.
I believe it has something to do with improving back pressure or some such, not entirely sure because Pete & Beetle refuse to comment on subject. Razz
Back to top Go down
PunkScout
Carlotto
Carlotto
avatar

Posts : 38
Join date : 2017-12-02

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:01 pm

Don't let the back pressure deniers win. It's a thing. Stand strong.
Back to top Go down
Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO
avatar

Posts : 5782
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 61

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:05 pm

'Back Pressure' is a term invented by morons who don't understand the laws of physics and the dynamics of exhaust systems.

Carry on.
Back to top Go down
Converted Duc
Biondino
Biondino
avatar

Posts : 270
Join date : 2014-12-16
Age : 54

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:12 pm

Lol. I really have to be careful here. I may not make it back from my next trip to bungendore Smile
Back to top Go down
beetle
GRiSO
GRiSO
avatar

Posts : 5929
Join date : 2013-09-30

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:18 pm

Back Pressure?

Fuck wank bugger shitting arse, head and hole.

That's all I have to say about that.





Back to top Go down
https://www.griso.org
PunkScout
Carlotto
Carlotto
avatar

Posts : 38
Join date : 2017-12-02

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:32 pm

Sure there is. Back pressure as I understand it is the pressure differential between your exhaust valve and the end of the exhaust pipe. If you didn't have back pressure the engine wouldn't run very good as the cylinder would be full of exhaust gas. This is a highly dynamic system and at points there isn't but on average there is. Otherwise exhaust gas wouldn't leave the engine. Here's a pretty cool article on it: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - it's a little weird in places, but it's fundamentally correct.

Are we defining back pressure in the same way?
Back to top Go down
Street
GRiSO
GRiSO
avatar

Posts : 1755
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:39 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
https://WWW.REIQUAM.COM
PunkScout
Carlotto
Carlotto
avatar

Posts : 38
Join date : 2017-12-02

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:50 pm

Goddamnit, why does it have to be the other American that replies to a chat about engines with a picture from his chiropractors office?
Back to top Go down
beetle
GRiSO
GRiSO
avatar

Posts : 5929
Join date : 2013-09-30

PostSubject: Re: When safe to reflash?    Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:24 pm

PunkScout wrote:
Sure there is. Back pressure as I understand it is the pressure differential between your exhaust valve and the end of the exhaust pipe.  If you didn't have back pressure  the engine wouldn't run very good as the cylinder would be full of exhaust gas.  This is a highly dynamic system and at points there isn't but on average there is. Otherwise exhaust gas wouldn't leave the engine.  Here's a pretty cool article on it: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]   - it's a little weird in places, but it's fundamentally correct.

Are we defining back pressure in the same way?


What can I say? You're wrong. Back pressure is a bad thing.

How much pressure to drag racing engines have? Diddly squat.

Consider gas flowing in a pipe. For it to flow, the pressure at one end must be greater than the other. The gas flowing through the pipe is affected by the drag created from the pipe itself. This is back pressure. Fortunately, the engine creates the differential to ensure the gas goes out the end.

The engine creates the differential, but it's the size, shape, and length of the exhaust that affects the speed of the exhaust gas. The smaller the pipe, the greater the velocity, the wider the pipe, the lesser. Fluid dynamics 101.

So if you stick a big wide open exhaust on, you get less back pressure. Win! Oh wait, I've got no bottom end torque, therefore, I need back pressure. No! Wrong!

Each puff of gas from the exhaust valve has a little packet of vacuum following it. The higher the gas velocity, the greater the vacuum. So, to get the best scavenging affect, we need a smaller diameter pipe. This helps the engine pull all the burnt shit out of the combustion chamber. This has the most affect at low RPM, as there's plenty of time for the little vacuum packets to pull the gas from the chamber. As RPM increases, the gas flow appears constant and less pulsey (I don't think that is a word), so scavenging affect is reduced at higher RPM. So, at low rpm I need a small pipe to maximize scavenging, and at high rpm I need a big pipe to minimize pressure drop. That's why an EXUP system works so well. We don't have such luxury in our bikes, so we must compromise on the size and length of our exhaust pipe.

Ergo, torque has everything to do with gas velocity, and nought to do with back pressure.

And I didn't even mention sound pressure waves. They really fuck things up.

So if you think back pressure is a good thing, remove your headers and stick something into the end of each one, with a 3/4 inch hole in it. That willl give you bulk back pressure and almost zero scavenging. Let me know how much better your bike runs.


End of pontification.





Back to top Go down
https://www.griso.org
 
When safe to reflash?
Back to top 
Page 1 of 3Go to page : 1, 2, 3  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
GRiSO ghetto :: The Ghetto :: GRiSOLOGY-
Jump to: