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 what color is oil? SL vs SG

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eeyore
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PostSubject: Re: what color is oil? SL vs SG   Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:51 am

avgpetro wrote:
tvboy wrote:
Wow.
So far, I've been told to use a specific oil and any good high quality 10w-60. Well, which is it?
To be accurate, none of the above.
- You don't need a specific oil, you don't even need motorcycle oil - unlike most motorcycles, our engine oil does not get to the clutch nor to the gearbox. Also, you don't have to care about the corporate deals between Piaggio and ENI (ex-Agip)...
- "any good high quality 10w-60" is not correct either - "good high quality" is a fuzzy definition.

The correct is "Use whatever 100% synthetic 10w60 oil you can find and believe its fair priced".

Having roler tappets, you don't have to care about API specs either. To be honest, if I had your bike, I'd use the lowest (oldest) spec I could find localy, even if I can't think of a reason for that.

Note: My 1100 has flat tappets, so, unlike you, I have a reason to care a bit about specs (zddp). Last time, here (island at east border of Europe), Motul "moto-something" costed to me same price as RedLine, I got the second for my flaties - You don't need to subject yourshelf to those dilemas...

1200 is a very different engine as mentioned above the oil is used to cool the exhaust valves in an attempt to hit reduced emissions. In the UK the 1100 and 1200 don’t use he same oil. Regardless of brand, colour, bike or car oil the specifications are a G4 lubricant.
I honestly don’t care what oil people choose to use but suggesting that someone uses the ‘lowest (oldest) spec available locally’ is the exact opposite of the manufacturers recommendation.
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tvboy
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PostSubject: Re: what color is oil? SL vs SG   Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:34 am

I just realized I didn't quote Peter precisely and wanted to clarify.
He said "Any decent name brand 10/60 full synthetic is fine"
I said something like "any good high quality 10w-60 is fine"
I meant no disrespect.

thank you
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: what color is oil? SL vs SG   Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:27 pm

Just noticed you say your bike is a 2011? Has it been rollerised? If not it doesn't matter what you put in it as it's going to destroy itself unless you rollerise it.
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tvboy
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PostSubject: Re: what color is oil? SL vs SG   Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:51 pm

At the risk of adding to an oil thread it has flats but goes to the shop in three days to get the roller upgrade. Im curious what kit that will be but don't want to start a new discussion about that.
I'm going to request the dealer take pics which they may do anyway.


Also, not that it matters but I just learned the current oil was changed about 7 months ago.
Not two years ago as I had been lead to believe earlier.

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: what color is oil? SL vs SG   Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:53 pm

It'll either be a 'B' or an 'A' kit depending on when in 2011 it was manufactured and what type ofrocker covers it uses.
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tvboy
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PostSubject: Re: what color is oil? SL vs SG   Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:15 pm

I removed the LH valve cover yesterday (to search for an odd sound)
and while it was off I took a few pics. Everything was clean and oily.
The P/N for the cover is 872606.
Does that help?

The odd sound ended up being the spark plug that wasn't snugged down and I was hearing a slight 'whooshing' sound.
The plug's electrode was clean and an off-white color which I suspect is normal for an engine that runs a little lean. I could be wrong. Not interested in a whole discussion about spark plugs.
It was an NGK CR8EKB. Before anyone says anything, I will be putting new plugs in today when they arrive.
Thanks to this forum I learned the original plug caps can be source of problems. I have the originals plug caps but I used a plastic tie strap under the cap's elbow to lift it off the plug. Worked like a charm.
I plan to get new NGK caps soon as well. (To preempt a future known problem.) That's how I roll.
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tvboy
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PostSubject: Re: what color is oil? SL vs SG   Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:23 pm

Peter, I just thought of something.
You being the expert on the flat/rollers issue, my local dealer told me the labor cost will vary depending on the kit. I'm guessing a difference of two hours based on his cost estimate.
In your valued opinion which kit should take the least amount of labor?
Excuse me for spelling 'labor' the correct way. ha


Last edited by tvboy on Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: what color is oil? SL vs SG   Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:41 pm

Both the 'A' and 'B' kits take the same time as the heads don't need to be removed for either installation. The earlier engines, 2007-about early 2010, need to have the heads removed to insert shims under the inlet valve spring seats to increase seating poundage as do all 1200 Sport models regardless of year.

Grisos are a doddle to rollerise as I once tank is off everything is accessible. The same is true of big tank Stelvios. Sports and Norges you need to yank the airbox as well and there's all the plastic on Norges. Worst of the lot are small tank Stelvios, especially the early ones as you have to strip off all the plastics surrounding the tank before you can get to the nitty gritty and the heads are bolted to the frame with brackets so 'C' kit bikes are even more of a PITA.

While it's in the shop I would strongly recommend you get them to grease the swingarm bearings and shock linkage bearings while they're at it as these are usually dry.
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tvboy
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PostSubject: Re: what color is oil? SL vs SG   Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:14 pm

I was planning to request that as well but thanks for the heads-up.

Did the LH valve cover p/n mean anything to you?

And "doddle" means simple I assume?

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: what color is oil? SL vs SG   Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:19 pm

872606 is early type valve cover so the bike needs a 'B' kit.
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tvboy
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PostSubject: Re: what color is oil? SL vs SG   Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:58 pm

Ok, Good to know.

I now know that I should expect the rollers to come with the little cylindrical guide nestled into the side of the part.
I'm still amazed that happened.

Thank you
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tvboy
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PostSubject: Re: what color is oil? SL vs SG   Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:01 pm

Oh, one other thing if I may.

Is it vital the tank be removed to do this or just a good idea?
Is there something under the tank they need to access?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: what color is oil? SL vs SG   Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:06 pm

The guide roller is vital to keeping the roller tappet square in thebore in the cambox. You shouldn't have to concern yourself with them though as the camboxes come fully assembled, it's a straightforward remove and replace with only the rockers being swapped.


Tank has to come off to access the cam chain tensioner plunger cap on the RH cylinder.

Pete
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tvboy
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PostSubject: Re: what color is oil? SL vs SG   Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:28 pm

Ok That sounds relatively easy.

If I knew a little more about it I'd be tempted to do it myself but better safe than sorry.
I'd hate to screw it up. Plus I'd have to buy the parts myself. Not good.
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avgpetro
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PostSubject: Re: what color is oil? SL vs SG   Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:23 am

eeyore wrote:
avgpetro wrote:

......
The correct is "Use whatever 100% synthetic 10w60 oil you can find and believe its fair priced".

Having roler tappets, you don't have to care about API specs either. To be honest, if I had your bike, I'd use the lowest (oldest) spec I could find localy, even if I can't think of a reason for that.
.........

.......
In the UK the 1100 and 1200 don’t use he same oil. Regardless of brand, colour, bike or car oil the specifications are a G4 lubricant.
I honestly don’t care what oil people choose to use but suggesting that someone uses the ‘lowest (oldest) spec available locally’ is the exact opposite of the manufacturers recommendation.

I crosschecked the "manufacturers recommendation", as seen in the owners manuals available at the Gheto's "GRiSO Ex Libris" section. All of them, for all grisos have the exact same frace: "top brand oils meeting or exceeding CCMC G-4 A.P.I. SG specifications"
The only difference is that the 2005 English and 2006 USA manuals for the 1100 specify 5W40, something that is a known mistake, Guzzi issued a tech bulletin for that.

In UK, 1100 and 1200 use diferent oils? Well...OK....

As for the specs, CCMC does not exist since 1996 (or '91?), so, the G4 spec does not exist either. If a manufacturer mentions it, it has the same value as if it mentioned that "Jims specs are met".
API SG on the other hand... Good luck finding oil that does NOT exceed SF. Even oil that does not exceed SG is rare (strict 100% synthetic 10w60)

Anyway, I wrote "Having roler tappets ..... if I had your bike ..... even if I can't think of a reason for that"
Havent suggested anyone to use the lowest (oldest) spec, I wrote that for no good reason - assuming the bike has roller tappets - me, mysfelf, and I, would prefer (the rare) SG over SH, SH over SJ, SJ over SL, SL over SM, SM over SN.
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MotoJezek
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PostSubject: Re: what color is oil? SL vs SG   Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:56 am

Liqui Moly "Molygen" oil is a different, greenish color but doesn't come in 10w-60.
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