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 Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!

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burntclutch
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Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Empty
PostSubject: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:01 am

So, this bike has been a struggle. I was finally happy with its performance after installing the beetle map to my 2007 1100.
I went on multiple day long rides...no issues at all..super great.
Then I thought...prev owner had liquid Moly 10w 60 in it...I had no idea how long ago, so I picked up some Silkolene (never saw red oil before) and changed the oil and oil filter.

Now it went to an inconsistent low idle that would dip into the 800rpms and sometimes bounce back to 1100 rpm...or sometimes just stall when coming off the throttle.
Popping on deceleration reappeared also.

Reset TPS, Reinstalled the beetle map, set to relearn, adjust Co in multiple directions and even reinstalled the stock map.

No difference.
How could just changing the oil do this?
How can I dial in the fuel lean/rich?

I'm too nervous to take the bike far now as issues seem to arise out of nowhere at times.
Gutted.


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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:41 pm

It's not map related. It's not oil change related. Something else has changed. Apart from simply draining the oil did you do anything else? Remove the wings? Tank? Seat?

You can't adjust the mixture per se. Injection times are all contained in the map.

Are you still running the airbox snorkel? If so make sure nothing is blocking it.
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burntclutch
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Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:43 pm

Thanks for the response, I double checked the snorkel. No blockage.
The oil change only involved the plug to empty and replace the filter. No other items were removed.

Seat only came off after the issues came up.

I am running some Chinese injectors that look identical to the ones I pulled out.
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bahamazoo
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PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:51 pm

why did you change the injectors?
Oz1200guzzi (Tony ) put the Chineze ones in - his were 120,000k old however, and has had issues.

Weird idle without provocation (for me) is stepper motor shenanigans.

The 2V is an uncomplicated lump.
Put good fuel in it, change the oils regularly -I do main/filter at 5k, gb and carc at 10k - kms.
Check the valves at 10k, and reset the TPS when ever you have the laptop in the garage (takes about, what, 2 minutes?).

ride.
ride.
ride.


Last edited by bahamazoo on Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:01 pm

How much oil did you put in? If you've overfilled it, oil can get into the stepper system and throttle bodies, causing woes aplenty.



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burntclutch
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PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:52 pm

I changed the injectors trying to solve a fueling issue that left me stranded 30 miles away early Spring. I replaced the fuel pump and the injectors
I thought stepper motor issues cause high idle?
The 2v being tractor like is the reason I bought it hoping have something easy to work on and reliable.

bahamazoo wrote:
why did you change the injectors?
Oz1200guzzi (Tony ) put the Chineze ones in - his were 120,000k old however, and has had issues.

Weird idle without provocation (for me) is stepper motor shenanigans.

The 2V is an uncomplicated lump.
Put good fuel in it, change the oils regularly -I do main/filter at 5k, gb and carc at 10k - kms.
Check the valves at 10k, and reset the TPS when ever you have the laptop in the garage (takes about, what, 2 minutes?).

ride.
ride.
ride.
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burntclutch
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PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:56 pm

I just went and double checked the level. Had my girlfriend stand it up straight and i unscrewed the dipstick and checked the level without screwing it back in.
I am right close to the top line but not over it.
I assume the bike has to be straight up when checking the oil? as well as not screwed in when checking the level.

I could always pull the tank and get to the stepper motor to look it over. Is this a clean and reinstall thing or a "replace it" item?

Thanks!

beetle wrote:
How much oil did you put in? If you've overfilled it, oil can get into the stepper system and throttle bodies, causing woes aplenty.



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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:16 pm


I'd pull some of the oil. Maybe to 3/4 full on the dipstick. Check for oil in the airbox. You may have to pull the stepper hose off the airbox and squirt some throttle body cleaner or similar in. You can also use GuzziDiag to check the stepper functionality.



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bahamazoo
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PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:18 pm

bike doesn't need to be upright to check the oil....

find the happy mark for the oil at WHATEVER position the bike is in easily, and ALWAYS check it in that same position. Repetition is the key.

I have a 40mm piece of wood under the stand, and the mark is just over half way up the stick. (actually, I have cut a tiny line in my temp dipstick at the happy spot). I sometimes use the original dipstick when i do oil changes, for level checks. But always with the bike in the same position.

Happy that the girlfriend is willing and able to assist - she's a keeper Razz Razz
but with the bike level and up to the mark, I'd say you are well over the happy spot...
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Kiwi_Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:39 am

burntclutch wrote:
Thanks for the response, I double checked the snorkel. No blockage.

I am running some Chinese injectors that look identical to the ones I pulled out.

The Chinese are good at making something look identical to get your money, past that point not so much
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burntclutch
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PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:33 pm

So, to update, today I spent the day in the garage.
I pulled the tank, the airbox and the stepper motor.
Cleaned out the throttle bodies, the air box and the stepper. Pumped out plenty of oil too.
Cleaned the 2 outer spark plugs.
Cleaned the lines that connect the stepper to the throttle bodies.
Buttoned it all back up..fired the bike up, pulled the stepper line from the airbox and blew in some carb cleaner as it sucked in air.
It choked on that for a bit and died. Waited a minute and started her back up.
Did the carb cleaner bit again..died and restarted it.

Seems to run a bit better. Rev the bike up and the revs can still dip a bit, but never below 1000rpm.
Certainly a bit of an improvement.
Exhaust Popping seems absent unlike earlier in the week.
I will take her out on my "Reliability Test" loops as soon as time and weather allows and report back.

Thanks, I hope this did the trick Smile
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burntclutch
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PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:46 pm

Still running rough, spitting and popping on just revving up to 2-3krpm and just about stalling when I let go. I will check the air box for oil again I guess..otherwise, I am at a loss and pretty depressed.

I wish I had a place to just "drop it off" around here to trouble shoot.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:58 pm

Isn't Steve around there somewhere? He might be able to help.
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burntclutch
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PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:34 am

Steve is wonderful, knowledgeable and patient...but in a situation where troubleshooting so far has been fruitless, I would feel horrible to ask a guy that would have to travel the distance to figure out an absolutely unknown. This is (to me at least) one of those situations where leaving it somewhere to be gone through would be the kindest move.
There nothing worse to me then having to turn something over because nothing makes sense from a typical diagnostic.
I will PM him and see if he has any thoughts on the topic though, and hope he has some good advice he is willing to share on this.

I hate the idea giving up on this bike. It's basically a tractor of simplicity yet I can't track this issue down. There is NOTHING out there from a new bike perspective that holds a candle to this thing in terms of style and purpose.

Pete Roper wrote:
Isn't Steve around there somewhere? He might be able to help.
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antmanbee
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PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:24 am

When you replaced the fuel pump and filter did you replace the submersible hose too?
If so did you use SAE 30R10 hose? Also did you use quality fuel injection type hose clamps?
Even if you did it may be a good idea to remove the pump assembly again and check for internal leaks.
A small leak could exhibit symptoms like you describe.
If you used the wrong type hose it will swell and leak, it's like a time bomb, it works at first and after a few weeks or maybe longer it fails.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:26 am

Have you tested the injectors? You can test them with GuzziDiag. It fires them 8 times. Left & right can be tested separately.

I tested mine once by pulling them out of the throttle body and test firing them into a syringe. I compared the volume for each side.



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burntclutch
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PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:07 am

antmanbee wrote:
When you replaced the fuel pump and filter did you replace the submersible hose too?
If so did you use SAE 30R10 hose? Also did you use quality fuel injection type hose clamps?
Even if you did it may be a good idea to remove the pump assembly again and check for internal leaks.
A small leak could exhibit symptoms like you describe.
If you used the wrong type hose it will swell and leak, it's like a time bomb, it works at first and after a few weeks or maybe longer it fails.

In one of my adventures in fixing this issue, I replaced the entire fuel pump with a like new used unit and replaced the injectors. Then I added a Beetle map and for the last 2 months she has been running great. It could have been showing light signs of the original issue, but I may be mis-remembering it. After I changed the oil though, issue can back hard. Plugs no longer light tan colored like they were upon the replacing the items listed above. Not sooty either...but very dark. Combine blackened plugs with popping exhaust on accel and deceleration, I want to say it's running rich...but not sure why it would suddenly appear.
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burntclutch
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PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:10 am

beetle wrote:
Have you tested the injectors? You can test them with GuzziDiag. It fires them 8 times. Left & right can be tested separately.

I tested mine once by pulling them out of the throttle body and test firing them into a syringe. I compared the volume for each side.


I can certainly give this a shot!
It should be pointed out that the issue existed BEFORE I placed in the Chinese injectors...and went away for a few months after installing them and installing a Beetle map.
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antmanbee
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PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:14 am

The oil change is most likely coincidental to what ever the issue is.
It is worth re-checking the pump/filter/hose assembly to at least rule it out.
A test of fuel pressure might be informative too.
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burntclutch
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PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:21 am

When I installed the new fuel pump 2 months ago, I gave it a pretty thorough going over.
Not sure how to test pressure unless it's in the Guzzidiag tool...and not sure what it's supposed to be.

antmanbee wrote:
The oil change is most likely coincidental to what ever the issue is.
It is worth re-checking the pump/filter/hose assembly to at least rule it out.
A test of fuel pressure might be informative too.
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burntclutch
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Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:29 am

Making sure all info is out there...
After I got the bike I saw the wire harness was melted a good bit on the wires under the seat.
The entire wire harness was replaced.
The canister was removed.
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antmanbee
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PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:24 am

You didn't say, did you replace the internal fuel hoses? And if so are they the SAE30R10 spec hose?
If you do not have the right type hose and clamps you will certainly have a problem pretty soon even if this is not the cause of your current issue.

The only way to test fuel pressure is to hook up a fuel pressure gauge to the system. You could remove one of the injector hoses and attach the gauge.
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burntclutch
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Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:43 am

My original feul pump did NOT have the correct hoses, so when I bought a used replacement I made sure it had the correct hose type and was unmolested.

antmanbee wrote:
You didn't say, did you replace the internal fuel hoses? And if so are they the SAE30R10 spec hose?
If you do not have the right type hose and clamps you will certainly have a problem pretty soon even if this is not the cause of your current issue.

The only way to test fuel pressure is to hook up a fuel pressure gauge to the system. You could remove one of the injector hoses and attach the gauge.
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burntclutch
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Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:17 pm

I has some issues trying to check the injectors...bike ignition was on, injector slid out, fuel on garage floor.
I did open up the airbox to see if there was any oil residue from an ilfated ride Tuesday night...and everything was super clean.

Tomorrow I will put the injectors again and see what I get out of them
In the meantime, I put back on the beetle map and reset the TPS and set it to "relearn parameters" Starting it up ( any fast throttle movement have a VERY delayed response or bogged out) and then rode around the block. Stalled at idle once..and the popping and chuffing at idle was pronounced.
I've added a video!


We've had some troubling issues at home and unless I can sort this out soon, I will be forced to sell it at a massive loss. Not blaming the bike, I love it..but my working on it every weekend is making the home life pretty tense when combined with other drama. Sad
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil!   Slow Idle, New Map, Stock Map..All I did was change the oil! Icon_minitime1Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:40 pm


Dude, step away from the motorcycle. Fix your life first.

And don't sell it.




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