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 New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed.

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bigbikerrick
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
bigbikerrick

Posts : 11
Join date : 2019-09-09

New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Empty
PostSubject: New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed.   New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Icon_minitime1Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:56 pm

Hello folks ,I am the new owner of "Rushjob's" sweet 17 GRiSO. The PO told me he fairly recently,purchased beetles map,for stock exhaust, and then paid someone to load it for him as he is "low tech", in Dale's exact words. The bike runs great, it only has 1400 miles, but it idles at 1500 rpm, sometimes staying up around 1800-2000, then dropping back down to 1500. Ii is never lower than 1500. Its a little annoying, and there is very little engine braking when backing off the throttle.
Where do you folks suggest I start?
Thanks alot
Rick.
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beetle
GRiSO Capo
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beetle

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New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Empty
PostSubject: Re: New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed.   New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Icon_minitime1Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:50 pm


If it's one of my maps, it should have good engine braking. Check the TPS value, and check for oil in the air box. If it gets into the stepper, it can stick and excess air can get past the butterflies.




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bigbikerrick
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
bigbikerrick

Posts : 11
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New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Empty
PostSubject: Re: New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed.   New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Icon_minitime1Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:15 pm

Thanks for the reply, Beetle. Do I need the cables,and guzzidiag to check the TPS reading? I am not familiar with the CARC Guzzis, This is my first one. I am used to checking the TPS value on my 03 California with a multimeter connected to the TPS harness...
With your map designed for the stock pipe, at what RPM should the bike idle?
Thanks
Rick.
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beetle
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beetle

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New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Empty
PostSubject: Re: New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed.   New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Icon_minitime1Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:57 pm


Yes, you'll need the GuzziDiag cables and software. Throttle should be 4.6/4.7/4.8 when closed. Target idle is 1200 once the engine is hot (above 55C).




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Pete Roper
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New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Empty
PostSubject: Re: New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed.   New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Icon_minitime1Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:56 pm

FWIW every engine is different so even the most highly developed map may have small foibles when put in different machines.

My GRiSO is effectively identical to how Mark's was when it was a 1200, same air filter, same slip-on exhaust, even the same Ti headers and pretzel. The map is the most highly developed off all Marks maps for that reason because he is so insufferably anal about getting things perfect!

Thing is my 'Identical' bike idles at 1400+/-50 once warm. I can slow it down a bit by adding a few more points to the fuel trim but even so it's target is still 1200 +/-50 so that is where it should sit!

Mark has offered to fix it for me but it's not, IMHO, worth arseing about with and in all honesty I prefer the higher idle as I rarely ride in traffic and it keeps the oil delivery, and temperature, up which in all normal circumstances is a good thing.
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bigbikerrick
Montanarolo
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bigbikerrick

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New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Empty
PostSubject: Re: New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed.   New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Icon_minitime1Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:22 pm

Thank you, Mark, and Pete for your responses. I will get the cables, as I am sure I will need them in the future. I will also spend some time reading here, to learn about Guzzi diag, and checking the TPS voltage, etc. FWIW,The bike runs perfect with the Beetle map, great mid range torque, and smooth acceleration. I agree with you Pete about the differences in machines , and how they run,even if set up the same. This bike only has 1400 miles. I took a peek inside the air box, it looks brand new, like it was just rolled out of the showroom, there is not even a speck of dust or oil.
Rick.
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JohnA
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PostSubject: Re: New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed.   New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:36 am

I have a 2014 with the stock exhaust and somewhat recently loaded Beetles map. The idle was perfect before and after. The map didn’t change that but it made everything else better. We did check my TPS setting before and after and it was on target.
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Leone
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Leone

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PostSubject: Re: New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed.   New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:13 pm

First, sorry to hear that Rushjob didn't jive with the machine. I helped him load the map, and had intended to help him with the idle issue and syncing of the throttle bodies, but alas--between work (I run a small Euro car garage) and my home life, I haven't had a spare minute all summer! Sad

Second, my '17 GRiSO exhibited identical issues, so I may be able to help. There seems to be a production variance in components for the evaporative emissions setup on some of these bikes. In my case, the charcoal canister acted as a small reservoir for fuel vapors, and there appeared to be near zero permeability between the charcoal insert, and atmosphere (my understanding is that there should be some minor amount). When the engine is warm (and especially then after the bike sits for a few), there is a tremendous buildup of pressure between the tank, and the canister (enough to flex my tank to the point of cracking the paint!). In fact, if the bike has been running stationary for a few minutes (perhaps to sync throttle bodies) and you pop the fuel cap, you'll get a plume of fuel several meters high (ask Rushjob and I how we know!)--even after just a few minutes. Clearly, this not in any sense a desirable setup.  Shocked

Non-USA bikes vent the fuel vapors to atmosphere, and this is how I suggest you tackle the problem. While I do not condone the removal of emissions related equipment (as I'm one of the few who sees value in these devices), the setup on my bike was clearly ill-designed, and/or defective in some sense. (To be honest, outside of checking the blue/orange valve function and looking for the obvious kinked hose, I shit-canned the system before really delving into what the precise problem was... it appeared to be the canister itself, though I may very well be wrong).

Anyway, the lack of tank venting must exhibit an undesirable affect on fuel pressure, as both the wonky idle, and hot-start BS were eliminated concurrently with the EVAP system. With the valves properly adjusted (and PS: they will change considerably in those first 1000 miles or so) and the throttle bodies synced, it will perform outstanding. Use ethanol fuel free fuel if possible for the best experience (the power difference between the fuel types is evident immediately).

One further caveat: There has been research indicating that fuel vapors venting into a garage easily enter the homes which they are (typically) attached to. If you run a piece of hose with a plastic connector from where you park the bike to outside (someplace safe obviously), simply plug the hose on to the vent line after parking the bike... and voila, no fumes in the house.

edit: Oops, apparently too hurried to make a sensible point about the fumes--the research indicates that they are harmful (especially to children), so it would be prudent to mitigate them if possible.
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bigbikerrick
Montanarolo
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bigbikerrick

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New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Empty
PostSubject: Re: New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed.   New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Icon_minitime1Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:51 pm

Hi Leone, Thank you sir for the response. Its cool to be able to talk to the person that loaded my map, and knows Dale. I was lucky to get Dales beautiful, nicely accessorized GRiSO. The bike is better than new, and Dale is a super nice guy!
Everything you stated above makes perfect sense to me. I had planned to remove the charcoal cannister myself. I park the bike in a garage thats detached from my home, so fuel vapors are not a problem. Unfortunately there is not any ethanol free gas available where I live in rural Arizona( Douglas 85607)
So to shit can the system , is there a tutorial, here, or is it pretty straight forward ? Do I just vent the line with the blue/orange valve to atmosphere? Do I remove the valve?
I just received my Guzzi diag cables, so I can check things out. I have a dumb question, Leone. You loaded the Beetle ap on my bike, what happens to the stock map, is it still stored in the ECU?
This is all new to me. I am a "points and carburetor" old school tinkerer, and this is my first newer Guzzi.
So ,my plan is to first get rid of all the emission stuff/charcoal cannister,and see how idles at that point, and then proceed from there checking TB balance,valve lash, and TPS reading.
Thank you again, for responding,and your help. I will report back on how things go.
Rick Duarte
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JohnA
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PostSubject: Re: New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed.   New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Icon_minitime1Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:07 am

Rick,
If you do a search in the search tab for “canister” it will take you to threads with info on how to take the emissions mess off. Mine is much better without it.
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bigbikerrick
Montanarolo
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bigbikerrick

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New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Empty
PostSubject: Re: New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed.   New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Icon_minitime1Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:20 am

Thank you, John,A! Will do. All that emissions mess is coming off this weekend!
Rick.
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JohnA
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PostSubject: Re: New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed.   New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Icon_minitime1Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:58 am

Rick
The only issue I got into was that I had to take off some of the side “framing” that is attached to the back brake master cylinder so I could pull the bolt out that holds the canister on. That was because the bolt was too long too pull out otherwise. Others haven’t had the same problem. I think it’s dependent on the year GRiSO you have.
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Leone
Carlotto
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PostSubject: Re: New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed.   New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Icon_minitime1Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:19 am

Remove the canister (not too fiddly in my case), remove the blue/orange 2-way valve (splicing the hose together with a fitting is the easiest, or replace entirely, this line is the tank vent, so needs to be routed to the bottom of the bike, which will all be evident when you're there looking at it). Finally, regarding the hose between the throttle bodies--you can simply plug the port in the 3-way connector where the line previously connected to the canister (without plugging the line, you'd of course have a vacuum leak), or remove the hose entirely and plug the "nipple" at each throttle body (the nipples render throttle body synchronizing a bit easier, so I left them in place, along with the factory (modified as mentioned) hose and clic clamps).

Then synchronize the throttle bodies, and you're done! cheers

PS: Dale is a super fella, very meticulous about keeping his bikes perfect. Disappointed I didn't have the opportunity to get to know him a bit better. Congrats again on the lovely machine!




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bigbikerrick
Montanarolo
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New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Empty
PostSubject: Re: New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed.   New GRiSO owner, question re Beetle map and fast idle speed. Icon_minitime1Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:10 am

Thank you Leone, for the tips and advice. It made the process much easier after reading your instructions .
You are correct on Dale. He is super meticulous, and kept this bike better than new. He gave me all the stock take offs in little bags or shrink wrapped with everything labeled as to what it is. He also gave me receipts and installation instructions for every accessory, etc. What an awesome guy!
Rick.
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