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 Sump spacer gasket swap

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il Postino
Evilgarfield
RobR
paulbrice
tsheep2
hezovka
janguzzi
MrBob
MotoJezek
Eire1400
motor-timothy
Muzsaxon
JohnA
beetle
Guzzi Cat
LBC Tenni
odder
ratso88
Pete Roper
bigbikerrick
GuzziSteve
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Oz1200Guzzi
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Guzzi Cat
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
Guzzi Cat


Posts : 361
Join date : 2014-09-03

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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:16 pm

JohnA wrote:
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Pete,
One more sorry. When I take the condensate return pipe loose, shown here. I presume I loosen the connection on the left and leave the "nipple" coming out of the back of the sump in place? Also, is there some type of seal that  will need to replace in between? I've ordered new gaskets for the headers (at both ends) and new bolts and washers for the header flanges and of course the two sump gaskets. I hate getting into something only to find out I need another part. Many thanks again.

I am sure Pete will be along to answer your questions in detail but In the mean time I just got around to doing this job on the Stelvio on Saturday. Yes you just undo the nut and leave the nipple, it is a compression fit, you don’t need any seal.

My gasket was in perfect condition at 62k km but nice for peace of mind to have it done, wouldn’t want it blowing on a long holiday trip (not much fear of that this year).

I will do the same job on the GRiSO when she is due her next oil change.

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Pete Roper
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Pete Roper


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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:17 pm

Correct.

The fitting flange has two small o-rings that seal the Pipe where it enters. They're Viton and usually don't need replacing but if you want to be certain? Buy them.

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JohnA
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JohnA


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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:09 am

Many thanks Guzzi Cat and Pete.
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tsheep2
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tsheep2


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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:21 am

can anyone give me a torque setting for the sump bolts? I've looked through the manual and can't find a setting.

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paulbrice
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paulbrice


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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:57 am

Someone posted 10 NM just recently but I can't find it - here's the manual section with those bolts

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RobR
Carlotto
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Join date : 2017-11-04

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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:43 am

Great thread.

I sort of got forced into checking this. Brought a Tenni green GRiSO with a receipt for a service that had just been done before I brought it. The service was done at 16k but it got to 20k and I wanted to do one myself to bring it back on track with the service manual. Anyhoo Long story short when I tried to torque up the sump plug it just kept spinning. Last service must have over tightened it.

So I knew I had to pull the sump off and get out the Helicoil kit but thought I would have a quick look on this forum for any gotchas and found this thread. Glad I did.

I brought the upper gasket as a precaution and when I dropped the space the gasket had blown out in exactly the same spot as Eire's.

Due to the Aussie Grand Final being on, (USA read Superbowl) I only got it apart and cleaned all the parts up ready for assembly tomorrow.

One thing that I did find a bid concerning was one of the screws holding the pump intake gause filter was missing. It wasn't in the sump so one could only assume it was passed out in a previous oil change and most likely stuck to the magnet. I know it wasn't in the oil I changed.

My question is; are mechanics in the big shops so under the pump these days to get the service times down that torque wrenches stay in the tool box and they could miss a screw in the oil?

Does not give me a lot of faith in them at all.
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Evilgarfield
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Evilgarfield


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Join date : 2021-03-25

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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Tue May 11, 2021 2:55 am

Before I pull the trigger and order one, is this part also OK for a GRiSO 1100:

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I plan to order at TLM anyway and if the GRiSO 1100 from 2007 is also affected by this issue, I'll just add a gasket to my order.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Tue May 11, 2021 3:00 am

I've never seen the issue on an 1100. The whole oil delivery system is very different on the pushrod models. I wouldn't bother if I were you. Well done for being on top of the issue though.
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Evilgarfield
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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Tue May 11, 2021 3:53 am

As always, thanks for your insight Pete!
I asked the question because I saw in the part manual that the spacer gasket for the 1100 and the 1200 (2007-2013) have the same part number (GU01003651) so I figured that the same issue might happen with the 1100 (and this would have explained why my timing chain seems to be noisy(ish). But maybe I'm just listening too much and not riding fast enough to not ear the noise. Smile
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JohnA
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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:58 pm

Reviving an oldie but a goodie. Finally getting to this after asking several questions 18 months ago?
Do I understand that once I get the sump and spacer off (will come off in one piece) that I have to unbolt the spacer from the sump? Any other tips? I've got everything disassembled from the sump so far.

From Pete:
Once the sump is off there are half a dozen more bolts, (Of different lengths so don't mix them up!) that hold on the oil pick ups and sump spacer.


Last edited by JohnA on Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:34 pm

Sump and spacer come off separately.

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JohnA
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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Sat Nov 19, 2022 8:24 am

Thanks to the great advice here I finally got enough courage to get it done. Finished yesterday and started it this morning and all sounds good. My 2014 has 25,000 miles on it and both gaskets looked like new but like others have said, it gives me piece of mind. I plan to keep the bike forever and it will be 9 years in April. It’s 41 degrees here in Savannah this morning at 8:00. At lunch it will be around 60 so I won’t need my heated gear to go for a test ride. Next week is Thanksgiving here in the U.S. so I’ll have some extra days to ride. Fortunately where I live, you can ride year round (gets pretty hot in the summer afternoons). Thanks to all the pictures posted and advice.

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il Postino
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il Postino


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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:04 pm

I just tackled the gasket(s) on my '2014 8V SE, so thanks to all the Guzzisti on this forum who alerted me to the possible consequences of the Oil Lamp light coming on. Embarassed

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

My bike is relatively low mileage, but a few riding days stuck in traffic this past summer when it was 107F (42C) resulted in blowing out the area near the sump pan rail as well as the oil galley hole damage that others have experienced. Has anyone encountered this additional sump gasket damage before?

One observation and lesson learned from my swap experience: there are indeed 14 metric cap head bolts holding the pan in place as the factory manual (and this thread) indicated. What is NOT shown in the manual or well discussed here in this thread is that there are an additional four (4) recessed cap bolts around the periphery of the oil filter. If you follow just what is show in the manual, the factory completely misses this little detail.

Anyway, after tapping (not too hard) with a rubber mallet and a drift and not having the pan come loose after the 14 were removed, I crawled directly under the sump and looked up by the oil filter. It's a good thing I did because I was starting to contemplate some really hard tapping (or even, prying) to dislodge that sump pan... that could have gotten really ugly.
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JohnA
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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:56 am

The first post in this thread mentions the 4 additional bolts around the oil filter. You really need a mirror like I used to make things easier if your laying on you back under the bike. Your done now so congratulations.
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il Postino
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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:50 pm

JohnA wrote:
The first post in this thread mentions the 4 additional bolts around the oil filter. You really need a mirror like I used to make things easier if your laying on you back under the bike. Your done now so congratulations.

Thanks and am glad it's done. Wish I would have seen that about the +4 bolts the first time I read through, but I just missed it in the very first post and no one else talked about it afterward in the others. Funny that the factory didn't think to mention it in their procedure, either.

As for crawling around under stuff vs. using a mirror, I figured that since I'm used to sliding under my cars when I'm wrenching, then the same tactic could serve me under the Guzzi.


Last edited by il Postino on Sun Feb 19, 2023 5:23 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : $pelling)
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janguzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Wed Jan 18, 2023 2:28 pm

I am planning to do this too.

Question:
I have ordered a green upper gasket (original Guzzi part).
It is 0,5 mm thick. Could I use this one too?
It is about the material or the thickness (the aftermarket thick one is 1,1 mm)?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Wed Jan 18, 2023 3:42 pm

Get the aftermarket one.
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Glerin
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Glerin


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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Sun Jul 02, 2023 9:12 pm

Hello....I was helping to service a friend's machine and, among other things, I ordered, based on this discussion, a thicker "green" upper gasket from Dutch TLM.

But friend is a little too curious and he is not quite sure if it is okay that some of the holes on the new gasket are smaller than on the original.

I told him it is fine and used.....but for peace of mind, is there really no reason to worry?




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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Sun Jul 02, 2023 9:21 pm

There is no reason to worry. Why in fact the factory increased the size of the galleries to such a large degree I don't know and it is certainly a contributor to the whole problem as the clamping area is so thin.

If he is worried there is nothing to stop him opening up the offending hole with a hole punch but really, we've replaced literally dozens of the original gaskets with the thicker aftermarket types and we've never had a problem. Not once.

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Glerin
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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Mon Jul 03, 2023 2:36 am

Pete Roper wrote:
There is no reason to worry. Why in fact the factory increased the size of the galleries to such a large degree I don't know and it is certainly a contributor to the whole problem as the clamping area is so thin.

If he is worried there is nothing to stop him opening up the offending hole with a hole punch but really, we've replaced literally dozens of the original gaskets with the thicker aftermarket types and we've never  had a problem. Not once.

Thank you very much for the answer and this is enough for me.
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janguzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Mon Jul 03, 2023 2:38 am

The last days I finally found time to create a slide show video about this topic (I have used B063861).
I prefer this new paper|metal|paper gasket over the thick paper one.

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Speedfrog
Tanabuso
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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Mon Jul 03, 2023 3:40 am

Excellent step by step tutorial, thanks Jan! Thumbs Up
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raulnorry
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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Thu Nov 16, 2023 3:46 pm

Is there any kind of consensus on if the thick "green" gasket with the squared off blocks, or the thinner metal one used by Jan is better? I looks like I'm going to have to replace mine ASAP and want to make sure I get the best option. Thanks!
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Thu Nov 16, 2023 4:05 pm

They'll both work.
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JonB85
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PostSubject: Re: Sump spacer gasket swap   Sump spacer gasket swap - Page 3 Icon_minitime1Yesterday at 12:03 pm

Alright guys, I was planning to do this today but, in reading back through this thread and looking at my parts, I think I ordered the wrong sump gasket.

I've got GU05003630 for the oil pan which should be good and GU01003651 for the sump gasket which I now think is just the same original one that eventually fails?

The few links for gaskets that were posted in this thread are dead. The other part number I saw mentioned, 14003601, is not for CARC models according to mgcycle.com. Is that accurate?

A brief google searched came across this one: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] It's made of silicone and looks to be the correct shape. Is it worth trying? Since it's made in the US so I should get it in a reasonably quick time. Or I go with B063861 as mentioned above but AF1 won't be able to ship it for about a month...
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