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 Leaving an oil spot now!

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Edown101-23
Montanarolo
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Edown101-23

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PostSubject: Leaving an oil spot now!   Leaving an oil spot now! Icon_minitime1Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:24 pm

So I had my first service a couple of weeks ago now, and any riding that I had done since was only to and from work (20 - 25 min). So this past weekend I went for a longer ride about 1 1/2 hours highway, then about 2 hours highway. I came out to the bike the next morning to see a 3" round spot of oil on the ground. I traced the leak to a pool right under the front of the air box right in the center. Any ideas on what that could be from? My first thought was it was overfilled, but it doesn't appear that way looking at the dipstick (I could be wrong though).
So I thought it's a little overflow. Kinda dangerous dropping oil in front of my rear tire though. I'll clean it up let it run and see if it is still a problem. Cleaned up and ran it.... Nothing. Took it for a ride to work... Oil spot! Cleaned it up and left it at work due to the weather. The next day, another spot on the floor! Wth?? I tried to include some pics of where the oil was coming from, but I get some sort of error when uploading. But any help would be great.

Happy Veterans Day! Semper Fi!
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Edown101-23
Montanarolo
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving an oil spot now!   Leaving an oil spot now! Icon_minitime1Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:29 pm

I should also add that when it drips down to the ground, that is only after hitting the exhaust U-bend where the O2 sensor is... So thats great. And here are the pics of where I see the oil pooling. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving an oil spot now!   Leaving an oil spot now! Icon_minitime1Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:26 pm

If you filled it right to the top mark on the dip stick it may well be 'recycling' too much oil through the breather separator so that oil is draing back to the airbox. pull the airbox panel below the battery and you will see how much oil is building up there

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Edown101-23
Montanarolo
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Edown101-23

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PostSubject: Re: Leaving an oil spot now!   Leaving an oil spot now! Icon_minitime1Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:57 pm

lcjohnny wrote:
If you filled it right to the top mark on the dip stick it may well be 'recycling' too much oil through the breather separator so that oil is draing back to the airbox. pull the airbox panel below the battery and you will see how much oil is building up there

I didn't fill it. The dealership did it. They didn't know how much oil to put in it at freakin Moto Guzzi dealership??
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving an oil spot now!   Leaving an oil spot now! Icon_minitime1Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:16 pm

You have all together too much faith in the belief that anybody at yer average Moto Guzzi dealership knows jack shit about Moto Guzzis.

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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving an oil spot now!   Leaving an oil spot now! Icon_minitime1Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:28 pm

Edown101-23 wrote:
They didn't know how much oil to put in it at freakin Moto Guzzi dealership??
These beasts we have, they are stupidly sensitive to some things that no modern engineer or mechanic should put up with (like 100ml too much oil) and at the same time they are built of railroad lines and concrete and will go on and on (or feel like it).

If you want to be on this merry-go round it is ablout pain and pleasure (sorry)

If you want rational 2020 engineering better to buy a Honda or a samsung or any other brand of washing machine
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GuzziSteve
Fra Cristoforo
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving an oil spot now!   Leaving an oil spot now! Icon_minitime1Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:30 pm

Was it at St Charles?
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Edown101-23
Montanarolo
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving an oil spot now!   Leaving an oil spot now! Icon_minitime1Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:22 pm

lcjohnny wrote:
Edown101-23 wrote:
They didn't know how much oil to put in it at freakin Moto Guzzi dealership??
These beasts we have, they are stupidly sensitive to some things that no modern engineer or mechanic should put up with (like 100ml too much oil) and at the same time they are built of railroad lines and concrete and will go on and on (or feel like it).

If you want to be on this merry-go round it is ablout pain and pleasure (sorry)

If you want rational 2020 engineering better to buy a Honda or a samsung or any other brand of washing machine

Really dude?? Rational 2020 engineering has nothing to do with them not reading a dipstick or being able to trust that your 1st service is done correctly by the people certified to do the work. I plan to do almost all future services, but my hope was if anything was happening early they might catch it. Add on to that I work and didn't have the time. They should be able to do the basics.
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Edown101-23
Montanarolo
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving an oil spot now!   Leaving an oil spot now! Icon_minitime1Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:25 pm

GuzziSteve wrote:
Was it at St Charles?

Yes, it was at St Charles. I looked in the air box and there was a small spot of oil in there. But also I found the missing thumb bolt to my seat! They did a great job.
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rick pope
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving an oil spot now!   Leaving an oil spot now! Icon_minitime1Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:36 pm

[quote="

Really dude?? Rational 2020 engineering has nothing to do with them not reading a dipstick [/quote]

And there you have it. Much has been written here about not filling to the "full" mark. Do a bit of reading and try listening to these folks. They're trying to help you, and you belittle them.
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving an oil spot now!   Leaving an oil spot now! Icon_minitime1Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:50 pm

Oil capacities are like speed limits - they are maximums! we all now know that the 3.6 litre is, at best, an over-estimate. Global experience dictates that you start with 3.2 or 3.3 litres, see where the mark is on your dipstick, go up in 100 ml increments, if needed, to find the happy spot, mid-way between max and min on the dipstick. Then you mark it and record/remember the amount of oil that gets you there.

3.6 litres is too much, and will get into your airbox and throttle-bodies and WILL cause issues elsewhere at a later point. Don't ask how I or anyone else here, knows this.

Specifications are one thing - real-world knowledge is another. You cannot trust dealers to do the right thing - except for a limited few. Finding the few, well that's the hard bit!

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Edown101-23
Montanarolo
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving an oil spot now!   Leaving an oil spot now! Icon_minitime1Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:52 pm

rick pope wrote:
[quote="

Really dude?? Rational 2020 engineering has nothing to do with them not reading a dipstick

And there you have it. Much has been written here about not filling to the "full" mark. Do a bit of reading and try listening to these folks. They're trying to help you, and you belittle them.[/quote]

If anything, I was belittled. If I wasn't trying to get help, I wouldn't have posted in the first place. If I wanted a freaking Honda, I would have bought one. Most of his reply didn't help jack. It was a belittling reply in itself. If it was to be constructive then it could have simply said that they are sensitive over a few ML. Or look up oil filling tips. That is help. The rest could have been left off. Then I would have thanked him for the insight, and kept it moving.

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Edown101-23
Montanarolo
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving an oil spot now!   Leaving an oil spot now! Icon_minitime1Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:56 pm

Oz1200Guzzi wrote:
Oil capacities are like speed limits - they are maximums! we all now know that the 3.6 litre is, at best, an over-estimate. Global experience dictates that you start with 3.2 or 3.3 litres, see where the mark is on your dipstick, go up in 100 ml increments, if needed, to find the happy spot, mid-way between max and min on the dipstick. Then you mark it and record/remember the amount of oil that gets you there.

3.6 litres is too much, and will get into your airbox and throttle-bodies and WILL cause issues elsewhere at a later point. Don't ask how I or anyone else here, knows this.

Specifications are one thing - real-world knowledge is another. You cannot trust dealers to do the right thing - except for a limited few. Finding the few, well that's the hard bit!

Thank you! That helped me. Being that I just found that missing bolt in my air box, and my air filter wasn't changed, that also tells me a lot about their service department.

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GHIGGS
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving an oil spot now!   Leaving an oil spot now! Icon_minitime1Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:56 pm

For my first oil change I used a oil extractor, I sucked out 2500cc including oil filter. then I followed manual and poured in 3600cc. I started engine then within 5 minutes, it died. I then realized crap overfill remove 1100 cc of oil. Manual says bike on side stand oil level to the max on dipstick which it is, after each oil change. don't know where 3600cc came from but my amount is 2500cc. Manual also says 5W40 not 10w60 like the rest of other non GRiSO MG models. Something like this happening enough to sell my baby, no way!! Grisos are very special with unique sounds and character not boring like perfectly make japs. I'm still in middle of Beetle MAP, Idler stepper servicing and throttle body balancing. I just pulled starter out today as it locked up when bike was hot setting up CO2. My dealer parts department makes it no secret they hate moto guzzi when I enquired about a recall he said the guy who knew anything about our bikes has departed, he is contacting headquarters, luckily I have an independent guy willing to work on it. Lots of fun driving an Italian opera!! There are lots of folks on this board that will fall over themselves to help you with your questions, I appreciate their help and a big thanks to all of you guys!!
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving an oil spot now!   Leaving an oil spot now! Icon_minitime1Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:10 pm


There are a squillion posts on here about oil & oil levels.

When you change the oil and filter, prefill the filter before installing it. Then, put exactly 3.0 litres in.

Then do not worry. If you find any oil on the garage floor, it's a real leak. Not the result of blow-by.




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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving an oil spot now!   Leaving an oil spot now! Icon_minitime1Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:07 pm

OK, so the issue of oil overfill has been addressed but if you are getting oil under the bike it is very unlikely to be the result of over filling.

If it is not a loose drain plug or incorrectly fitted rocker cover gasket?

Likely culprits are either the oil pressure warning switch which are notorious. They seem to either last for ever or go tits up at the drop of a hat. Possibly it could be a leaking cooling gallery grub screw. Possibly it could be a leaking breather hose or condensor box condom? Perhaps if you could give us a better description of exactly where under the bike the oil is pooling we might be able to point the bone a bit more accurately?

Also, the thumb-screw for the tool-box door most likely fell out of its own accord and got sucked into the snorkel. Hence it's sitting on top of the air filter. Also changing the air filter is hardly something you'd expect to do at a first service at circa 1,000 miles or whatever. The air the engine is breathing in this period isn't going to be particularly dirty. Unless you're riding through sandstorms the whole time a filter is usually a minimum 10,000km item.

What SHOULD of been done at the first service is oils, oil filter, valve clearances and a throttlebody balance. When you get to the 10,000km service interval I would also strongly suggest pulling the swingarm and greasing the shock linkage bearings and swingarm bearings as this is rarely done at the factory to any degree of satisfaction.

Oh, one final thing worth checking which is easy is the cooling oil feed banjo bolt on the side of the head facing the valley. I think it's a 19mm from memory. Breather hoses and breather plate o-rings too are other leak points.

Best place to start I'd say is whip the wings off and have a good stickybeak down in the valley under the tank to see if you can identify where the oil is coming from

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Edown101-23
Montanarolo
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving an oil spot now!   Leaving an oil spot now! Icon_minitime1Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:19 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
OK, so the issue of oil overfill has been addressed but if you are getting oil under the bike it is very unlikely to be the result of over filling.

If it is not a loose drain plug or incorrectly fitted rocker cover gasket?

Likely culprits are either the oil pressure warning switch which are notorious. They seem to either last for ever or go tits up at the drop of a hat. Possibly it could be a leaking cooling gallery grub screw. Possibly it could be a leaking breather hose or condensor box condom? Perhaps if you could give us a better description of exactly where under the bike the oil is pooling we might be able to point the bone a bit more accurately?

Also, the thumb-screw for the tool-box door most likely fell out of its own accord and got sucked into the snorkel. Hence it's sitting on top of the air filter. Also changing the air filter is hardly something you'd expect to do at a first service at circa 1,000 miles or whatever. The air the engine is breathing in this period isn't going to be particularly dirty. Unless you're riding through sandstorms the whole time a filter is usually a minimum 10,000km item.

What SHOULD of been done at the first service is oils, oil filter, valve clearances and a throttlebody balance. When you get to the 10,000km service interval I would also strongly suggest pulling the swingarm and greasing the shock linkage bearings and swingarm bearings as this is rarely done at the factory to any degree of satisfaction.

Oh, one final thing worth checking which is easy is the cooling oil feed banjo bolt on the side of the head facing the valley. I think it's a 19mm from memory. Breather hoses and breather plate o-rings too are other leak points.

Best place to start I'd say is whip the wings off and have a good stickybeak down in the valley under the tank to see if you can identify where the oil is coming from

Well I'll try to answer what I can... In no particular order: The thumb screw was actually under the filter inside the airbox on the bottom.

I was told the air filter was replaced. It wasn't. The gasket around the air filter wasn't properly seated either.

The oil was pooled directly in the center between the throttle bodies but front and centered below the forward lowest point of the airbox. Since it was happening when I was on the highway, the airflow was blowing it back to where it would drip just in front of the O2 sensor.

So there is an oil stain now just below the forward most lower center point of the airbox, continuing forward to the wall of the block, staying in the center. I included a pic to try to help.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving an oil spot now!   Leaving an oil spot now! Icon_minitime1Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:37 pm

I’d say the oil pressure sender is the most likely culprit then. It sits in the bottom of the valley.
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Bulldog9
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving an oil spot now!   Leaving an oil spot now! Icon_minitime1Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:37 am

Maybe I missed it in the 'rhetoric' but have you checked the oil level? It should be at 1/2 to the low measurement. Beetle is spot on with the 'fill the filter and add 3 liters' will put you at about this level. Most Guzzi's will blow anything above that out into the airbox.

To check the oil level, while on side stand, unscrew the dipstick and leave in hole, preferably on a warm engine. Then mount bike center it, and pull stick, wipe and reinsert WITHOUT threading in. If the oil is above 1/2, remove enough to lower it.

A few other things is to check to see that the drain line is connected to the bottom of the air box. When the oil blows into the box, it collects there until it is drained out. Normally, you can drain this buildup by pulling a little plug on the drain line. However, if this line is disconnected, your bike will just dump whatever is in the airbox onto the floor.

You may also want to check the breather lines from the heads, one may be knocked off. I had a problem on my MGX, one of the breathers was leaking and blew oil everywhere. As others have said, a bad/leaky sensor is possible as well, but I'd think too much oil and a disconnected drain line, or loose breather is most likely.

Given the hamfisted chikanery of your dealer, anything is possible.

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GuzziSteve
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving an oil spot now!   Leaving an oil spot now! Icon_minitime1Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:47 am

If you can't do service yourself, find a better place! I may suggest Jim at Rose Farm Classics, he's retired from being a dealer but still does service. He moved to Morry's Place in Richmond IL. Do a search.

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Bulldog9
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving an oil spot now!   Leaving an oil spot now! Icon_minitime1Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:59 am

GHIGGS wrote:
For my first oil change I used a oil extractor, I sucked out 2500cc including oil filter. then I followed manual and poured in 3600cc. I started engine then within 5 minutes, it died. I then realized crap overfill remove 1100 cc of oil. Manual says bike on side stand oil level to the max on dipstick which it is, after each oil change. don't know where 3600cc came from but my amount is 2500cc. Manual also says 5W40 not 10w60 like the rest of other non GRiSO MG models. Something like this happening enough to sell my baby, no way!! Grisos are very special with unique sounds and character not boring like perfectly make japs. I'm still in middle of Beetle MAP, Idler stepper servicing and throttle body balancing. I just pulled starter out today as it locked up when bike was hot setting up CO2. My dealer parts department makes it no secret they hate moto guzzi when I enquired about a recall he said the guy who knew anything about our bikes has departed, he is contacting headquarters, luckily I have an independent guy willing to work on it. Lots of fun driving an Italian opera!! There are lots of folks on this board that will fall over themselves to help you with your questions, I appreciate their help and a big thanks to all of you guys!!

It is 3600 +/- a little. You wont/cant drain all the oil by sucking it out, and certainly can't drain the oil filter that way. If you only removed 2500 why would blindly you put 3600 in???? The only way to fully drain is to remove the drain plug and oil filter and let sit for a few minutes. Then you can add 3600ml.  As Beetle said, a 'short/smart' way to do this is to fill the filter before screwing on, and adding 3 liters.  I do this, but only add 2.5 liters, then the rest incrementally to get to the 1/2 mark. Adds maybe 2 minutes to the change procedure, and guarantees proper level.

Use 10W/60, Guzzi updated the recommendations, some older manuals say 5W/40 but supplements now call for this in all GRiSO's and CARC 4V/8V motors.

If you want to do a 'fast/lazy' oil change this way, best bet is to go slow on filling, measure and fill to the middle of the dipstick with bike centered/level, stick not threaded. Some keep it on the side stand and fill to the top this way as well. Lot's of variables can effect fill level.

Not tracking what is going on with your starter and why you are messing with CO levels, or running that long without a fan? If using a Beetle Map, leave the CO settings where they should be. No need to mess around.

For Parts, I recommend Harpers Moto Guzzi, MG Cycle, or AF1. They can get and have everything you need and will get it to you fast. They even have parts fiche to order direct. Cadre and Hamlins are also great dealers/parts sources.

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