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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:32 am

On mid 00s Guzzis and Ducatis these were known to be faulty and could leave you stranded when the hose slipped off the fuel pump or filter...

Are all Grisos also affected? Or up until which year??

Thanks as ever
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:24 am

The early 1100's had a problem with the short hose. For some reason they were still using a non submersible hose, it was a problem that had been there since 2003 affecting a host of California's and some V11's. It finally got corrected by the use of submersible hose in 2007/8. Your 2013 should be fine.

As for the filter? I've not seen one split but it seems that the problem may be related to ethanol in the fuel and since we only get ethanol if we choose to in Oz, and most sensible people choose not to, filters don't seem to cause any problems. I've never changed mine in 140,000km. I suppose I ought to at some point but generally speaking we have very good fuel in Oz.
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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:55 pm

cheers mate, Thumbs Up
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:53 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
The early 1100's had a problem with the short hose. For some reason they were still using a non submersible hose, it was a problem that had been there since 2003 affecting a host of California's and some V11's. It finally got corrected by the use of submersible hose in 2007/8. Your 2013 should be fine.

As for the filter? I've not seen one split but it seems that the problem may be related to ethanol in the fuel and since we only get ethanol if we choose to in Oz, and most sensible people choose not to, filters don't seem to cause any problems. I've never changed mine in 140,000km. I suppose I ought to at some point but generally speaking we have very good fuel in Oz.

Pete, I am married, as you know, to a treehugger queen, so I am used to making -- with only a bit of (to myself Wink ) carping -- "environmentally correct" choices.

As evidence, I really doubt that anyone in Frederick County, Virginia, recycles as much as do we, with Kathi's near-zealotic enthusiasm driving it all.  That is not hyperbole, but as factual as I can be in honest (ands occasionally annoyed about it) candor.

OK, my point?

Ethanol.

Are you saying that the sensible people in Oz who might have Guzzis "plastic" tanks have encountered no issues from using ethanol?

That has certainly not been my experience.

I have two tanks (each) for my Norge and GRiSO.  I swap those out almost every year.  If I don't, the Norge's swell to the point that if removed, they cannot be reinstalled.  The GRiSO's seem less susceptible to that sort of swelling, but develop blsiters that only disappear when, over winter, I drain the evilol and let them dry out for months.

My V7 II also had the oft-reported swollen half-metal-half-plastic fuel filter.  Split, no, but grossly deformed. I replaced it with an all-metal beemer one.

All of the above is anecdotal, yes, but, based on what I read from others here, my experience is maddeningly common here.  Maybe you all just get a better grade of ethanol?   Wink

IMO, corn is put to better use making bourbon.   cheers  

Bill
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:24 pm


If I may, I believe Pete is saying we're not forced to use ethanol laced fuel. We (potentially) have more choice in the matter. I'm not afraid to use 10% ethanol in my car, but I would think no GRiSO (or Guzzi) owner in Oz chooses to use ethanol laced fuel.

Yes, corn should only be used for making bourbon..and eating.





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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:44 pm

beetle wrote:

If I may, I believe Pete is saying we're not forced to use ethanol laced fuel. We (potentially) have more choice in the matter. I'm not afraid to use 10% ethanol in my car, but I would think no GRiSO (or Guzzi) owner in Oz chooses to use ethanol laced fuel.

Yes, corn should only be used for making bourbon..and eating.


Yeah, this. Also using arable land to grow corn, or in our case sugar cane, for turning into a not very energy rich fuel is a monumentally naff idea. These sorts of biofuels are actually more about making people feel good and supporting inefficient agribusiness than they are about producing a sustainable fuel.

I fart, wetly and lavishly, at ethanol fuels!

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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:48 pm

Avoid ethanol at all costs. Period.

As others have said, ethanol is better in alcoholic drinks than fuel. On that point, we over here in Oz, ensure we pick drinks WITH alcohol, just not fuel.

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JohnA
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:34 am

Gents,
The other problem we have here in the U.S. is that if you can find non ethanol because you live near an area with boats, it’s usually 87 octane. I mostly use 89 non ethanol which I keep in a 5 gallon can except for longer rides where I have no choice. I have my “go to place” to get it near by where I live.
The ethanol fuel even kept my Honda mower from starting and ruined my first GRiSO tank when I lived where I couldn’t find non ethanol gas. We are also big recyclers and care about the environment within reason, but ethanol is crap. Maybe ok for cars these days but nothing else. OK, now I feel better that I got that off my chest....

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BrandX
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:12 pm

We have a choice here now. I ran ethanol gas in most of my small engines for 30 years. Really only effected Diaphragm type carbs. I can go out and start float bowl equipped 30 year old pressure washer with one pull with 10 %corn gas.. Just have to run the gas out of the bowl each use. No gas additive ever.

Now that said, my Guzzi came out of Seattle, and had ethanol ran in it.. Tank was hard to remount until dried up for a while. Fuel filter was bulging at the seams . This Breva will hold 6.5 gals empty, and will make it to any non-ethanol station.. Seems like the bike is trying to tell me something..   Very Happy  

Wix 33032 metal filter is a perfect fit.. I also did the Aprilia tank o-ring fix to the Breva cap.. Same cap design, and can let water in to help start the swelling process.

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sideshowbob
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:02 pm

I am in the middle of corn country, and we have many ethanal plants. Strangely non ethanal 91 is available everywhere. May be an old fashioned, Midwest notion of giving people a choice.
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MalG
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:43 pm

My 2014 V7 Special ( the Jaffa), burst the filter at 123,000km. Coincidentally (?) some 250km after filling with ethanol-laced fuel - it was a case of mistaken bowser identity. I'd show it to you, Pete, but I think I might have chucked it out - in disgust.

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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:08 am

sideshowbob wrote:
I am in the middle of corn country, and we have many ethanal plants. Strangely non ethanal 91 is available everywhere. May be an old fashioned, Midwest notion of giving people a choice.

That's a sanguine view, Bob, as I suspect that the suits who make those sorts of decisions have, if they are in the Midwest at all, a great view of Lake Michigan from the 80th floor and up.   Twisted Evil

Pardon my cynicism -- FWIW, I am a fan of the Midwest and its folks -- but I find it ironic and annoying to the max to be able, almost in the shadow of an ethanol "distillery," to buy 91-to-93-Octane "Recreational Fuel," when, in Virginia and most places where the evilnol is not produced, it is near impossible to find.   Evil or Very Mad

I remain, quite frankly, urinated off by that.

Now ... get off my lawn!   Wink

Bill
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JohnA
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:43 am

Bill,
Also what your missing is the 30-50% extra they charge (at least where I live) for the non ethanol. That’s ridiculous too. And the govt has to provide subsidies to make it all work.....

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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:37 am

JohnA wrote:
Bill,
Also what your missing is the 30-50% extra they charge (at least where I live) for the non ethanol. That’s ridiculous too. And the govt has to provide subsidies to make it all work.....

Concur on all counts, John! Twisted Evil

FWIW, I think I remember -- a dangerous thing Wink -- that rec fuel being cheaper (in comparison to ethanol-laced junk) in SW Wisconsin than in NW Illinois. Been awhile since then, darn it. I do miss riding the Driftless area.

That said, as we are talking about (relatively) small-capacity tanks, I am more than willing to pay the price of putting the "good $tuff" in my moto's tanks.

Bill
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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:59 am

Impossible to get non ethanol fuel in Europe it seems.....

But now I know where those weird blisters on the tank came from...

best to keep riding the thing and not leave the fuel stagnant for too long I guess

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Lazlokovacs
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:12 am

I take that back! SP98 which is widely available in France is non ethanol.... phew

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ratso88
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:04 pm

Yeah, at my home we're surrounded by corn. Alcohol in fuel is sort of a joke, as Pete pointed out, and most likely would go away without subsidies and heavy lobbying from corn producing regions. Gasoline producers probably like it because they can up the octane of marginal fuel when they had to get away from MBTE here in the USA.

Out on the road it's pretty hard to plan non-ethanol fuel stops so I always try to bring it home near empty and top up with real non-E gas. It's the best I can do without going to extreme measures.

I also have about two miles down the road the real good stuff, at the pump. Purple, smells like old time gasoline, has lead and is rated a 110. I only ran that in my race bikes. Good thing too, it was bumping $9/gal at the time.
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Kel
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:36 am

Hey Ratso, have you tried avgas with likely marvel added or something like it?
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ratso88
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:08 pm

Without going seriously off topic, ethanol enhanced fuel, maybe we can start a new topic?

I think I have pictures of my race bike and will post them.

As far as my GRiSO and tank swelling I have to say it's undetermined a this point. I'm taking Pete's reassurance that '13 model year is not subject to the fuel line problems. I am kinda thinking I need to look at my fuel filter. Maybe after things warm up a bit. Spring maintenance day, recommission after storage.
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rick pope
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:03 pm

Just a few points for clarification:
In the US, there is no subsidy for ethanol. Gasoline utilizing ethanol as an oxygenate does get taxed at a lower level, but is still taxed.
Ethanol is not there for energy, but rather raise octane and to bring oxygen to the party and support a cleaner burn.
The by products of ethanol production include high protein animal feed. We're not using "food for fuel", but rather siphoning off most of the starch, leaving the better proteins behind.
Oxygenated fuels were mandated by the EPA. Before ethanol, we used MTBE, which was found to contaminate drinking water.
I could go on.......
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rick pope
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:32 pm

Hmmm, another point to ponder.. Why would MG build bikes with tanks susceptible to a fuel that's been used for many years? Perhaps MG is the guilty party here. Do other manufacturers have current bikes with this issue?

You can take my soap box now.
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BrandX
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in tank fuel hose and filter Empty
PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:40 pm

Besides the fuel filter, more then likely it's the combo of Corn gas, and water reacting to Plastic tank.. If you look at all the pumps that are pulled, signs of water. mine had some from the gas cap being somewhat suspect. The Aprilia Touno o-ring fix solved that one, and non- corn gas if the bike is sitting at all. In fact, unless there is no other option Clear gas goes in mine.. Stuff really does suck overall..(IMO)

There are many small engines with diagram type carbs that get carb part swelled from the 10 % gas.. Lots of factory warning on the stuff..
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JohnA
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:03 am

Rick,
There are other bikes like Ducati that get the tank swell issue. I learned about all of this the hard way.
If you look for videos of epoxy tank lining you’ll learn a lot like I did. I remember reading our tanks are neoprene and they absorb water from the corn gas. I lined mine with caswell epoxy. Of course this was tank #2. It took tank #1 about 6 months of being empty to go back to normal shape.
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rick pope
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:42 am

Silly question.... Ethanol has been used as engine fuel since Henry Ford built his first car. It's mandated in most of the US as an oxygenate, and just happens to be an excellent way to raise the octane. It's been in most of our fuel since the late 1970's. So, why would MG, or any other manufacturer, build vehicles with components that aren't compatible with it? Could it be cost savings? Nah. MG uses the best of everything. They even put extra grease in all the suspension wear points.
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JohnA
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PostSubject: Re: in tank fuel hose and filter   in tank fuel hose and filter Icon_minitime1Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:29 am

It’s not that hard to line a tank. I wish my dealer would have told me about this before my first one swelled in the first year.
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