GRiSO ghetto
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.


12425 - Established June, 2013 - all GRiSO, all the time...
 
HomeRegisterLog in
 

 Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice

Go down 
+8
BrianD
kiwi dave
Pete Roper
Guzzi Cat
GuzziSteve
beetle
BigTime
Amstaff
12 posters
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
Amstaff
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
Amstaff

Posts : 22
Join date : 2019-03-24

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:49 pm

Dear Grisologists,

Maybe someone has insight into an issue with my ‘14 Stelvio. What could cause the starter relay to not respond when button is pushed?

Spent most of the day trying to ferret out the common culprits. Fuses, battery, connections and terminals seem to check out. Failed while underway in the rain, coasted to a stop, wherupon the bike would light for a moment but not stay running. Buggered with the main fuses and suddenly after fussing with the fuses behind the right side panel the button wouldnt produce a response. Towed home. This is a low mileage bike not normally in rain, maybe never before, since was bought with 2800 miles, and I’ve never run in the rain. Spends its life in a garage. Instruments cycle on appropriately. SERVICE message comes up at times as does the red triangle. The tail light and the parking light come on with the key.

Test lead to the battery from the spade on the starter makes it run. Swapped the starter relay with the aux light relay, and swapped the Start Up Maint relay with another that seemed identical. No luck. Jumped the violet and violet/yellow leads on the starter relay plug, and the starter turns when the key is switched on.

Is this Starter Interruptus? Seems not given the above. Seems the ECU or something is keeping the starter button from activating the relay.

Trying to avoid the long trip to the dealer and the down time. If they werent 1.75 hours away and could fit it in it would be there tomorrow.

Thanks if there’s ideas on these symptoms.
Back to top Go down
BigTime
Carlotto
Carlotto
BigTime

Posts : 41
Join date : 2020-06-13

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:33 am

If i'm right, your fuses are not blown, especially the 15A from the starter relay. Usually this is the sign of starter interruptus. Nevertheless it's a good idea to put in a starter relay-kit - your bike starts much better and you can be sure, it's not starter interruptus.
Back to top Go down
BigTime
Carlotto
Carlotto
BigTime

Posts : 41
Join date : 2020-06-13

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:35 am

Kiwi_Roy is the one.
Back to top Go down
Amstaff
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
Amstaff

Posts : 22
Join date : 2019-03-24

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:47 am

No blown fuses-all checked with multimeter. I thought bridging the staerter relay’s plug and turn of the key starter activation ruled out starter interruptus.

Almost like the button itself doesnt work (seems a very remote chance), or it is ECU interruptus from some other failure. A clue may be the fact that the whole episode was precipitated by a loss of power while riding. It does have a Beetlemaps ECU mod-hopefully this is irrelevant.

Thanks
Back to top Go down
beetle
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
beetle

Posts : 8541
Join date : 2013-09-30

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:10 am

Amstaff wrote:
It does have a Beetlemaps ECU mod-hopefully this is irrelevant.



Yes.


Water in the starter button, or kill switch? scratch




Back to top Go down
https://www.griso.org
Amstaff
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
Amstaff

Posts : 22
Join date : 2019-03-24

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:26 am

Gee, that fits with the flame-out and subsequent fleeting restarts although previous washings havent caused issues. But it fits.

Thought the remap couldve affected an O2 sensor, but I suspected even if it happened it shouldnt cause the ecu to kill it.

Thanks

Back to top Go down
GuzziSteve
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo
GuzziSteve

Posts : 429
Join date : 2016-04-14

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:12 am

Change relay, Stevio's are the worst for it.
Back to top Go down
Amstaff
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
Amstaff

Posts : 22
Join date : 2019-03-24

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:34 am

I swapped relays……Isnt that the same?

No luck on the starter/kill switch, dry. Blue/yellow wire has 12.8v and BL/WH wire 11.8v. In addition to that voltage drop, the 40A fuse has a half volt drop comparing a chassis ground to the grounded lead of the fuse receptacle.

Also, code MGST 0004 comes up at times.
Back to top Go down
Guzzi Cat
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
Guzzi Cat

Posts : 346
Join date : 2014-09-02

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:16 pm

Is the headlight working? If I remember correctly I read somewhere that the headlight relay also plays a role in the start up on the Stelvio, which means that the starter relay and headlight relay both need to be working properly.

I’m no totally sure but worth checking the headlight relay, Roy might be able to help hopefully!

Hope you get it sorted,

Back to top Go down
beetle
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
beetle

Posts : 8541
Join date : 2013-09-30

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:16 pm


MGST 0004 is the dash firmware code, I believe. It just means the volts are dropping low enough for the dash to reboot.




Back to top Go down
https://www.griso.org
Amstaff
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
Amstaff

Posts : 22
Join date : 2019-03-24

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:52 pm

I am thinking the headlight shouldn’t be on until the motor starts. The wiring diagram shows the related fuse getting a feed from the generator. I also checked all the switched fuse receptacles behind the headlight and they all seem right.

Looking like a 2 hour drive to dealer. Exhausted all knowledge and ingenuity. Hopefully product will be clearly identified cause and clean bill of health.
Back to top Go down
beetle
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
beetle

Posts : 8541
Join date : 2013-09-30

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:17 pm


The "parking" light is on until the engine starts, then it switches to low beam.


Back to top Go down
https://www.griso.org
Amstaff
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
Amstaff

Posts : 22
Join date : 2019-03-24

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:11 pm

Yes, the parking light is on when switched on, but not running. Dealer seemed to say an ECU failure doesnt throw codes or messages or warning lights. RELAYS!!!! CONNECTIONS!!!! Common theme and been over it-but will take someone better than me to vet. Off it goes.

Back to top Go down
Pete Roper
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
Pete Roper

Posts : 8111
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 64

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:58 pm

If the spotlights have shorted out they will stop the bike charging. Once the battery voltage drops below threshold the dash will drop out and the bike won't start. The fact it was wet may or may not be relevant. If you jump start it from a running vehicle and the lights don't come on when it's running it'll be the fuse has blown due to the short. From memory it's one of the ones under the small triangular panel on the right of the bike under the seat.
Back to top Go down
Amstaff
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
Amstaff

Posts : 22
Join date : 2019-03-24

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:31 pm

I replaced the factory aux lights. They were cheapie replacments, but I never use the aux lights……I swapped another battery in to see if it’d help. didnt work and put the other back in. Sitting there on a trickle charger since, and now I see a message on the display that says “ECU” with an icon of a separated plug/socket. Also, the display now doesnt illuminate the sidestand down or neutral light when stand down and in neutral-but the lights flash at boot up.
Back to top Go down
beetle
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
beetle

Posts : 8541
Join date : 2013-09-30

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:21 pm


Check the ECU fuse. The only times that ECU unplugged icon appears is when the dash can't see the ECU.
Back to top Go down
https://www.griso.org
Amstaff
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
Amstaff

Posts : 22
Join date : 2019-03-24

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:24 pm

Yeah, found a couple of interesting threads….

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Back to top Go down
Amstaff
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
Amstaff

Posts : 22
Join date : 2019-03-24

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:31 pm

I did just have the rear wheel off so, I’ll check the rear speedo sensor. The other one showing the giant plug near the tank maybe should be checked out.

So much time sunk into this.
Back to top Go down
kiwi dave
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
kiwi dave

Posts : 591
Join date : 2014-04-23
Age : 73

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:13 pm

beetle wrote:

Check the ECU fuse. The only times that ECU unplugged icon appears is when the dash can't see the ECU.

I've observed corrosion on those two multipin plugs that connect to the ECU. Also the ECU itself can show signs of corrosion. The 1100 GRiSO seemed to be prone for this corrosion, but I've only observed this on other's bike, I never owned one, just the 1200.
Back to top Go down
http://www.guzzigander.com
BrianD
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio
BrianD

Posts : 93
Join date : 2015-12-19

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:26 am

If you haven't carried out the startus interuptus fix then check the connecter that goes from the loom to the ignition switch and check that one of the pins has burnt out.

or

the starter relay with diode - it fills with water and rusts, causing intermittent starting
Back to top Go down
Amstaff
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
Amstaff

Posts : 22
Join date : 2019-03-24

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:29 am

It does not seem to be relay related since they were swappped. The connector maybe…. which seems to involve tank removal which makes me squeamish….. I’ll fuss with a few more things but I’m feeling defeated now. Checking the trailer and filling the car tank is looming in my thoughts at this point.

Having the tech at the dealer isolate the culprit and console to the effect that reliability is restored has significant value.
Back to top Go down
lcjohnny
GRiSO Capo
GRiSO Capo
lcjohnny

Posts : 409
Join date : 2016-01-25
Age : 66

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:35 pm

Hi Amstaff when you say  
"What could cause the starter relay to not respond when button is pushed?"
Which "starter relay" as they are different but interconnected circuits

On the GRiSO 1200 there are 3 relays in the starter circuit.
1) the starter relay
2) the starter "maintenance relay"
3) the starter solenoid

If i understand Kiwi Roy correctly the button causes the ecu connect the earth on relay 1 which fires it as it already has 12v on the other side. That relay triggers relay 2) and both provide the 12v that fires relay 3).

Startus Interruptus is when 12v does not get to the solenoid because the teeny weeny wires used by Guzzi cannot handle the 20 plus amp surge to the relay and the resistance in those wires means that maybe 10v arrives at the solenoid - insufficient to flick the gear into the flywheel and connect the battery to starter. ( an ageing battery will cause the same problem )

Cures are using bigger wires to ensure that 12v arrives at the solenoid (and making sure your battery is juicy).
Back to top Go down
Amstaff
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
Amstaff

Posts : 22
Join date : 2019-03-24

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:45 pm

.


Last edited by Amstaff on Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Amstaff
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
Amstaff

Posts : 22
Join date : 2019-03-24

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:53 pm

I towed the Stelvio to the dealer, Hamlins Cycles. I gave up, bit did look at the wiring some more. I think I ruled out previously everything except listed below. 

Tracing the paths from the starter button tells me the following devices affect the signal to the starter motor:
1) primary injection relay
2) secondary injection relay
3) lambda sensor
4) starter relay (since these were swapped shouldnt be this)
5) ECU
6) key switch (definitely is not this since jumped relay pigtail turns starter with key turned)


Last edited by Amstaff on Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:38 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
BigTime
Carlotto
Carlotto
BigTime

Posts : 41
Join date : 2020-06-13

Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Empty
PostSubject: Re: Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice   Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice Icon_minitime1Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:30 pm

I'm very interested of hearing the next steps.
Back to top Go down
 
Stelvio Starter Relay Won’t Send Juice
Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
GRiSO ghetto :: The Ghetto :: GRiSOLOGY-
Jump to: