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Buellbloke
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Buellbloke


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PostSubject: Universal Bearings   Universal Bearings Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:30 am

I guess unless you actually remove the arm from the gearbox splines and check your never going to know if the UJ's are f*cked or not.
My GRiSO is only 12 years old being a 2010, rear UJ is nice and smooth possibly a bit floppy but smooth with it.
The front one is f*cked, the action is stiff not fluid at all, only on one axis mind.
Could imagine it would slow your bike down when you shut the throttle off?
Is it detrimental f*ck knows possibly only Pete would know?

Its not right though. Ive already pulled the circlips and will be pressing or beating the f*cker out soon as have access to a vice and obviously a nicely priced new replacment UJ bearing.
Been a long time since removed and replaced one, owning several Robin Reliants meant changing the Kingpin (UJ) was a pretty regular occurance, how do you think a single front wheel articulates.

Hey Pete could do with a pair of Hardy Spicer nippled UJ's part number~"Germany INA f-200698.1 W"

On a side note is it not possible to pop the caps regrease the needles and pop the caps back on, reseat?

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Universal Bearings   Universal Bearings Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:17 pm

Shipping will be a killer.

I'll price 'em up next week.

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Buellbloke
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PostSubject: Re: Universal Bearings   Universal Bearings Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:48 pm

I realise why there was a ring of grease the entire circumferance just inside the drive shaft housing at the gearbox end. Its all the grease escaping those two UJ bearings seals.
If anyone has experienced this ring of grease and gone no further I wish you and your GRiSO all the best for the new year affraid
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Universal Bearings   Universal Bearings Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:23 pm

This UK company lists joints Driveshaft solutions linky
Will need the dimension (obv) but the prices are reasonable.

With the old tonti bikes the uj spider was also used on a jcb to drive a remote hydraulic pump (useless piece of knowledge no 734)
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Buellbloke
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PostSubject: Re: Universal Bearings   Universal Bearings Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:33 pm

lcjohnny wrote:
This UK company lists joints Driveshaft solutions linky
Will need the dimension (obv) but the prices are reasonable.

When for cars they cost £12, £41 is expensive and thats if it is a 22mm x 49mm.

Tried to delete my post above but you beat me to it, surely grease would fly to the cap not out the seal centrifugally?
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Universal Bearings   Universal Bearings Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:37 pm

when i was involved in Guzzi mechanic-ing we did used to get a line of grease in the housing when a bearing had died
- but to be entirely truthful we never used to look when the bearing had not failed so it might be normal -

the bearings may be over greased from new and then as it works the bearing warms and the hot  oil expands out of the bearing cup but ...

 the stiffness of the bearing (or rattle in a terminal case) tells you all you need to know.

Remember a modern chain and sprockets is £150 every 20k miles or so


Last edited by lcjohnny on Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:54 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : wrong fecking glasses)

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Buellbloke
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PostSubject: Re: Universal Bearings   Universal Bearings Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:24 pm

lcjohnny wrote:
when i was involved in Guzzi mechanic-ing we did used to get a line of grease in the housing when a bearing had died
- but to be entirely truthful we never used to look when the bearing had not failed so it might be normal -

the bearings may be over greased from new and then as it works the bearing warms and the hot  oil expands out of the bearing cup but ...

 the stiffness of the bearing (or rattle in a terminal case) tells you all you need to know.

Remember a modern chain and sprockets is £150 every 20k miles or so

One side of the axis is sweet the other is tighter, its not solid, is it servicable to re grease them by hand, if you had a nipple you would just squeese more in.
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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Universal Bearings   Universal Bearings Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:58 pm

if you can squirt heavy gear oil in past the seal so it goes free...... then maybe

If it is actually stiff i would splash some of the cash you saved on the suspension links - on a new spider

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Buellbloke
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PostSubject: Re: Universal Bearings   Universal Bearings Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:30 pm

lcjohnny wrote:
if you can squirt heavy gear oil in past the seal so it goes free...... then maybe

If it is actually stiff i would splash some of the cash you saved on the suspension links - on a new spider

No squirty nothing, meant popping the caps off cleaning the needles and re greasing like the suspension bushes.

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Universal Bearings   Universal Bearings Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:36 pm

K5-A702

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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Universal Bearings   Universal Bearings Icon_minitime1Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:39 am

The K5-A702 part code only seems to work on the ReFast.co.au site
but there is a reference chart at Hardy Spicer linky that shows you which are the key measurements (depending on uj spider type)

Then you can search other sites in UK and elsewhere like arb linky

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Buellbloke
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PostSubject: Re: Universal Bearings   Universal Bearings Icon_minitime1Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:48 am

lcjohnny wrote:

Then you can search other sites in UK and elsewhere like arb linky

Good link dude has several Moto Guzzi bearings listed, unsure of their pricing structure.


Considering how lightly greased most UJ's are from the factory they originated, due in no small part to their expected dissasembly prior to fitting. The mechanic then giving each bearing a dollop prior to re assembling.
Am suprised the UJ's are not mentioned as part of the swing arm check/re-grease.
Leaving the arm attached to the output shaft affords no inspection.
I would think if they ignored extra greasing the swing arm and steering bearings then the UJ's stand no f*cking chance.

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Buellbloke
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PostSubject: Re: Universal Bearings   Universal Bearings Icon_minitime1Thu Dec 16, 2021 4:45 am

Pete Roper wrote:
K5-A702

Grease nipples wont allow the ftting of the UJ and are inaccessible after anyway.
Am sure have seen smaller grease nipples than standard ones.
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rick pope
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PostSubject: Re: Universal Bearings   Universal Bearings Icon_minitime1Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:09 am

As the owner of literally thousands of grease fittings, (I buy grease in cases of 7# tubs), I can assure you that a common cause of bearing failure is over greasing.  Just think back to the times when we had greaseable drive shafts v. now. Modern trucks and farm tractors no longer have fittings in the u-joints.

A properly greased and installed bearing will usually outlast one with a fitting.
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Buellbloke
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PostSubject: Re: Universal Bearings   Universal Bearings Icon_minitime1Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:57 am

rick pope wrote:
As the owner of literally thousands of grease fittings, (I buy grease in cases of 7# tubs), I can assure you that a common cause of bearing failure is over greasing.  Just think back to the times when we had greaseable drive shafts v. now.  Modern trucks and farm tractors no longer have fittings in the u-joints.

A properly greased and installed bearing will usually outlast one with a fitting.



I didnt specifically order a UJ with a grease nipple, though the idea seemingly a logical one was perpetrated by another Laughing
I didn't even know it had one until it arrived. My first thought was f*ck thats huge Shocked
Am thinking its placement central instead of betwixt angled out might have been better. Or not!
That said have just discovered you fit the UJ with the nipple removed, then refit the nipple, apply grease with a modified gun to allow access, then remove nipple and fit a blanking plug cheers
Grease nipples or no grease nipples am more concerned about why the bearing failed/stiffened up on one axis and the 3 thou shim fitted to one bearing on that axis.
The rear UJ is perfect.
Once unseen and working until it clunks who gives a ****

So your saying grease nipples can cause premature failure by over greasing?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Universal Bearings   Universal Bearings Icon_minitime1Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:47 am

I tend to think that premature failure tends to be the result of people over filling. Many think you pump grease in until it can be seen squirting out of the seals. Sure that indicates the bearings are 'Full' and in theory the old grease is 'Purged' but the problem is of course if you do that you've just blown the seals haven't you so the new grease will get thrown out by centrifugal force as the shaft spins.

The trick is to add grease slowly and gently and watch for the seals to begin to swell and stop at that point as then their integrity is intact.

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sideshowbob
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PostSubject: Re: Universal Bearings   Universal Bearings Icon_minitime1Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:03 pm

Non greaseable UJ's are also stronger, as they are solid, not hollow like the greaseable ones.
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Buellbloke
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PostSubject: Re: Universal Bearings   Universal Bearings Icon_minitime1Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:30 pm

sideshowbob wrote:
Non greaseable UJ's are also stronger, as they are solid, not hollow like the greaseable ones.

I quite like the idea of having the option to re-grease the UJ evey 10thou.
Moreso considering my solid non regreasable UJ failed at under 13thou miles.
I fully take on board the whole not over loading the bearing seal until it pops fresh grease.

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Just need to locate me the proper sized nipple blanking plug.

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