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 Spark plug tube update?

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SMTCapeCod
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jlburgess
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jlburgess
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PostSubject: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:18 pm

I had the roller upgrade on my '09 GRiSO 8V a couple years back. I started to notice oil misting around the heads lately and figured the valve cover gaskets were getting hard. I ordered those and the spark plug tube rubber bushing as well. When I went to change them I found there was no spark plug tube rubber at all. I put one on top of the rockers and figured the problem was solved but after a long ride a trace of oil came back.

It appears I still have the long tube shown in this parts diagram. Was that supposed to be updated along with the roller rockers and cams? At least I got the expensive parts under warranty!
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:03 pm

No, 'B' and 'C' kit bikes still use the 'Long' plug tubes. If you have misting it may be the o rings at the bottom of the tubes at the head or, more likely, the breather hoses from the back of the heads cracking and leaking.

Can you take some pics of the leaks and their locations?

(Edit) unless of course they've used the wrong kit.) if they'd done that you wouldn't have 'Misting' so much as an Exxon Valdez event!

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jlburgess
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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:52 am

Does that mean #16 should not be used and I should have two of the #9 o-rings only? I'll take some pics tomorrow...
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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:59 pm

Nope. Not on an '09 bike. Have you read my 'Definitive guide' to Rollerisation? I think this is covered pretty well in there.
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jlburgess
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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:16 pm

Well that info certainly helps. Maybe the O-rings were in there and I didn't see them? The issue started during sharp cornering on right hand turns. Not exactly a great place to get an oil leak. The later model tube seal slowed the misting issue if that gives any clues?

I was aware of the breather hose issue and put heavier duty hose at the head port and adapted it to the curved hoses above to the catch tank. The stock hoses are ridiculously expensive and didn't fare well from the get go. Is there a proven solution for that too?

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jlburgess
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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:23 pm

I think the timing sensor is a culprit on the left side?[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:25 pm

Here's the rear left side then the right side near head gasket.[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:43 pm

Phase sensor or the condom on the breather box/condensor.

Very, very unlikely to be head gasket. There are also o-rings on the breather plates on the rear of the heads which can leak but most likely it will be the upper or lower o-rings on the plug tube. Take great care removing the tubes, they are NLA.

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jlburgess
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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:03 am

Good info, thanks Pete! 👍. I had forgotten about the breather box up by the frame head. I had some suspect hoses up there before. I'll post an update later....
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jlburgess
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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Thu Dec 30, 2021 5:45 pm

I was able to order a couple of new spark plug o-rings but my local parts guy seemed somewhat unenthusiastic about the prospect of receiving the blow by cannister condom part #
Breather Cap 978781 $6.69
Has it been eradicated? I recall that it is an odd size and not easily capped. Gorilla glue?
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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Thu Dec 30, 2021 6:00 pm

I just received one (condom/cap) a couple weeks ago from AF1. Don't recall whether it was an ordered part or in-stock. It is made of very thin material, which is frustrating.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Thu Dec 30, 2021 6:10 pm

The original is less than stellar. If you have a hunt around I’m sure you can find something better. It’s only a cap after all.
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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:24 pm

An update and word to the next poor bastard that looks for a left side oil leak for months.  At the lowest point of the blow by cannister on the left side is a hose wrapped with a black fabric.  The factory single use band clamp was loose on mine and it can't be seen from above when the fuel tank is off.  My "condom" was fine although I put on a fresh one anyway because well two uses is just wrong.

The lowest hose goes down to the back if the oil pan.  That was my issue.  Any blow by oil was being wicked down that hose fabric and being deposited above the left head and also towards the back of the engine at a very slow rate making it almost impossible to tell where it was coming from.  The hose has almost zero slack as well so if you cut off even 1/2" you will probably need to make an extension as shown here.  Live and learn![You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:52 pm

Thank you for updating us on the culprit.
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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:51 pm

I'm considering eliminating the entire blow by cannister because the location of it is extremely problematic whenever some leak springs up which seems to be common.

Has anyone removed it completely and put a similar cannister or crankcase filter further back in the tail section area?
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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:58 pm

One of the biggest issues is where to put it. On a GRiSO there really isn't that much spare space!

We are starting to see more failing return hoses and the like, it's just an age thing. I simply take them to a hose place and get a new hose crimped onto the oil return pipe to the sump. Hopefully a better quality hose than the crap they use at the factory....
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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:48 pm

jlburgess wrote:
An update and word to the next poor bastard that looks for a left side oil leak for months.  At the lowest point of the blow by cannister on the left side is a hose wrapped with a black fabric.  The factory single use band clamp was loose on mine and it can't be seen from above when the fuel tank is off.  My "condom" was fine although I put on a fresh one anyway because well two uses is just wrong.

The lowest hose goes down to the back if the oil pan.  That was my issue.  Any blow by oil was being wicked down that hose fabric and being deposited above the left head and also towards the back of the engine at a very slow rate making it almost impossible to tell where it was coming from.  The hose has almost zero slack as well so if you cut off even 1/2" you will probably need to make an extension as shown here.  Live and learn![You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Mine showed some seepage, but the rubber cap was split. I bought the braided line anyway, but haven't installed yet. Were you able to just drop/thread it in after snaking out the old one, or was more disassembly required?
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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:29 pm

jlburgess wrote:
I'm considering eliminating the entire blow by cannister because the location of it is extremely problematic whenever some leak springs up which seems to be common.

Has anyone removed it completely and put a similar cannister or crankcase filter further back in the tail section area?

You were lucky he ripped me a new one when mentioned that topic Laughing
And others, man has awesome GRiSO/Guzzi knowledge but is a tree hugger Shocked Laughing
That black plastic catch can does a great job the only shit part is that braided hose.
The shit that comes out that hose is condensation and oil mist which makes creamy vomit, on your bike it will look like oil only, its not.
Bike sends excess splurge/condensation (water) to the sump. In OZ due to high temps it gets evaporated as the system intended.
In cooler climbs we shit the f*ck out Laughing
I've yet to notice its impact and should it impact my lubrication system will deal with it appropriately.
Should I need to will fit an un vented catch recepticle in place of the sump keeping the system closed loop.
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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:31 am

The emulsion vomit just sits at the bottom of the sump where it comes in, even in chilly climes I don't see it would ever get so much (oil drains will remove some if the level goes up) to reach the oil pick up.

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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:38 am

paulbrice wrote:
The emulsion vomit just sits at the bottom of the sump where it comes in, even in chilly climes I don't see it would ever get so much (oil drains will remove some if the level goes up) to reach the oil pick up.

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Trust you to have a picture of that! Shocked me I would post that under bike porn wind them up, thats an idea! Laughing

I guess its heavier than the oil to sit under the stuff, still looks all kinds of wrong though.
I mean the idea of modern vehicles is to recycle that stuff (burn it in combustion) and the GRiSO goes and stores it Shocked

Did you do that upper spacer gasket job going by the picture?
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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:51 am

Yes, did upper gasket job recently as a 'just-in-case-job', but the photo is from rollerisation ages ago (I was checking sump for bits of metal !)

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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 02, 2022 6:18 am

In the 90s worked at a mechanics on Guzzi twins
Had an identical breather system and on some bikes (which usually had emulsion in the rocker boxes) the breather-separation box at  the end of the rocker box breathers and up behind the headstock would fill up with the emulsion sludge which would not separate into oil and gas so the whole sludgy mess would slowly drip down into the airbox.

I beleive that this is the same issue that we get on the CARC bikes as they are not that dissimilar from a T3 or V1000

At that time the 'cure' seemed to be to replace the breather-spearation box with the metal one off the old Le Mans which was much smaller and had a (crude) one way valve in it.

But I think the root cause was probably worn rings/bore or valve stems/seals because most big Guzzi back then did not fill the rocker boxes with emulsion, and we got more come in with oily airboxes in winter so likely that it was worsened by cold weather and short runs
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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:17 pm

Well the O.P. celebrated his victory over oil vomit a little too soon. Now I have done the job around 17x but I'm losing count. At this point everything on the left side of the cannister has been replaced. I was starting to think there was a crack in the cannister which still might be true although I think I have it cornered this time just like all the other times! 🤪

One of the biggest hurdles has been trying to get a reasonably priced hose to run from the cylinder head port up to the cannister. It's metric of course but you can't stretch or heat a hose properly to do the job of the awful factory ones. I found these guys on Amazon. You will need 1/2" vapor hose up top and 5/16 hose below for the economical workaround.
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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:22 pm

Oh, and back to the original part of the thread, you actually can use the later model spark plug donut in an earlier model which cured the valve cover leak apparently. I didn't realize I had mixed and matched parts but it has been great for 1,000 miles so far. Does that make it the "floating valve cover"? What was the point of that modification from the factory?
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PostSubject: Re: Spark plug tube update?   Spark plug tube update? Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:10 pm

If you mean the tampons, the four rocker cover bolt 'Donuts' yes you can use them but the correct ones are better for the earlier application. If you mean the later type plug tube gasket to replace the o-ring in the early rocker cover this won't work as a.) there is no recess for it to seal in on the early cover and b.) the distance between the top of the early type cambox and the cover is too great for the depth of the plug tune 'Donut'.
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