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 Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others

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Chris W
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rick pope
Oz1200Guzzi
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jukelemon
Montanarolo
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Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others Empty
PostSubject: Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others   Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others Icon_minitime1Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:46 pm

Hi all.

Well, sorted out the cold starting issue so all good there. Now I have a front tire that holds air just fine unless you ride the bike.

My local shop and I have remounted the tire 2x now. Soaped it.. no leaks anywhere. I have submerged it 2x. No leaks are visible and I would let it sit in one spot for several mins.

Will hold 36psi overnight without issue. Go to ride it.. it drops.

Prior to today, it would actually go flat (<10psi) after a 10 min ride. I got an hour + on it today and it dropped ~15 psi. Literally no change to anything i.e. we did not change anything/tighten anything.

I have read several of the threads but none I found seemed to have this specific issue. How does one fix a leak if you cannot ID it?

Just curious if anyone else had this happen.
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others   Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others Icon_minitime1Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:03 pm

Do you, by chance, have tyre pressure caps on your valves?
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jukelemon
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PostSubject: Re: Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others   Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others Icon_minitime1Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:08 pm

Negative. Just the typical/normal caps.
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rick pope
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PostSubject: Re: Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others   Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others Icon_minitime1Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:11 pm

Is the valve a 90* type? Could centrifugal force be flexing it enough to leak? Try spraying it with soapy water while attempting to wiggle it. (Kids bubble solution works well for finding leaks.)

And what solved the cold start issue?
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jukelemon
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PostSubject: Re: Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others   Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others Icon_minitime1Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:13 pm

rick pope wrote:
Is the valve a 90* type?  Could centrifugal force be flexing it enough to leak?  Try spraying it with soapy water while attempting to wiggle it.  (Kids bubble solution works well for finding leaks.)

And what solved the cold start issue?
Hey there.

No, regular stems and it must be something having to do with the flexing of the wheel during riding. We checked the tension on all the spokes. They were fine.

Cold Start issue must have been something to do with all the water the bike went through on the ride home because once I put in new fuel and it sat in my shop drying out (assuming), the bike started right up as it should!

This front tire leak is very frustrating though.
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sideshowbob
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PostSubject: Re: Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others   Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others Icon_minitime1Fri Dec 24, 2021 12:38 am

Take the tire off and silicone seal all the nipples. That will rule out the leak there.
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mark111
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PostSubject: Re: Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others   Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others Icon_minitime1Fri Dec 24, 2021 4:09 am

Was the leak there with the old tyre prior to fitting the new one?

If it is leaking at your spoke seals in the rim, it can be very hard to find as you often need to submerge the spoke joint at the wheel rim, often for several minutes.
I would suggest you put 50 psi or the max pressure indicated on the tire and let each section of the tyre and rim sit under water for 5 minutes (leaks are often only indicated by tiny bubbles a the spoke hole).
This should also show if there is a problem with the rim or tyre at the submerged section as you work your way around the whole rim/tyre. Be patient this might take a while and don't stop if you find something, check the whole rim and tyre as there may be more than one leak.
You will need a tray or plastic container long enough to fit the wheel in when standing up.
I would have thought that the level of pressure loss you are experiencing should be fairly obvious but stranger things have happened.
If it is one or multiple spoke seals it is easy to sort out.
If you can't find any obvious leaks at the spokes or tyre it is probably appropriate to remove the tyre and check if the is a flaw in the rim (highly unlikely).
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mark111
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PostSubject: Re: Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others   Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others Icon_minitime1Fri Dec 24, 2021 4:15 am

Sorry just re-read your post and this looks like an existing tyre not a new one.
Stating the bloody obvious but have you checked the tyre to see if there is a small nail or screw causing a puncture. It could be something as small as a staple and not easy to see and easily overlooked.

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Chris W
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PostSubject: Re: Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others   Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others Icon_minitime1Fri Dec 24, 2021 1:35 pm

rick pope wrote:
Is the valve a 90* type?  Could centrifugal force be flexing it enough to leak?  Try spraying it with soapy water while attempting to wiggle it.  (Kids bubble solution works well for finding leaks.)

I agree, if it's not the spokes and not a tire puncture, it  is most likely something with the valve stem.
I had the issue Rick is describing on a previous bike. tire would hold air until I rode it. the faster I went, the faster it would go flat. the 90 deg valve stem was flexing and leaking.
you can try to move the stem around by hand while soaping it, maybe you'll get lucky

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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others   Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others Icon_minitime1Fri Dec 24, 2021 1:45 pm

Note that the spokes will change tension as the wheel rotates so the seals could still weep air when moving and not when still.

Any slightly loose spokes (e.g. where the wheel has taken a thump) could be worth tightening?
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jukelemon
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PostSubject: Re: Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others   Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others Icon_minitime1Fri Dec 24, 2021 4:26 pm

Thanks guys.

Yes, we both soaped and submerged the tire 2x now. Looked at the wheel/tire. They look new. I mean.. they are new lol. The bike only has 3200 miles.

It is for sure something that is occurring while riding.

Did not mention.. we also replaced the seal on the valve stem AND the actual valve. No leaks while under water and the spokes are tight.

I am just at a loss. I mean it cannot be that may things and apart from replacing every single spoke O Ring, I am not sure what else to do.

I find it very very coincidental that as the temps have warmed, the tire has lessened its deflation. It is supposed to be almost 70 here tomorrow (odd but another story altogether). I will be very curious to see how the deflation changes.

Greatly appreciate the suggestions fellows. Apart from that, love love the cycle and will be able to get used to the handling characteristics once I can stop dealing with an everchanging front end lol.
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jukelemon
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PostSubject: Re: Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others   Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others Icon_minitime1Fri Dec 24, 2021 6:44 pm

And..found the f'er!

Not sure how I missed it 2x in the soap/water submersion but it was there.

Took the tire off again this morning for one last go of it.. found a steady stream of bubbles on the bead/side of tire. Constant flow.

Now I have a smoking gun at least!
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rick pope
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PostSubject: Re: Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others   Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others Icon_minitime1Fri Dec 24, 2021 6:56 pm

Yee-haw!!!! Glad you found it. Now suit up and go for a Christmas ride. I hope to put on my Santa hat and tootle around the neighborhood on the Henderson tomorrow.
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jukelemon
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PostSubject: Re: Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others   Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others Icon_minitime1Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:26 pm

rick pope wrote:
Yee-haw!!!!  Glad you found it.  Now suit up and go for a Christmas ride.  I hope to put on my Santa hat and tootle around the neighborhood on the Henderson tomorrow.
Well.. finding it is good. Not sure I can fix it by tomorrow.

The wheel and tire were like new/clean so not sure what is failing. I don't have rim/tire tools so have to wait until the shop reopens I guess.
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Papa Lazarou
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PostSubject: Re: Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others   Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others Icon_minitime1Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:55 pm

This is why mine has cast wheels and the spoked ones are in the attic. Merry Christmas all.
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RedMogAndy
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PostSubject: Re: Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others   Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others Icon_minitime1Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:41 pm

My take on this is that the "O" rings in these wheels have been sitting there for the best part of a decade and will have almost certainly lost some their original shape & elasticity by now. A GRiSO is a lot of bike and the brakes are pretty impressive, so I reckon the spokes at the front have to earn their keep!
The cure would be to change the lot but the wheel builders I spoke to did not want to touch the job Sad so I went for an "Outex" kit. This comes with a new valve but without the 90' bend so it wouldn't fit, I replaced the original one as the "O" ring had a visible flat & I didn't want to risk it. Fitting the kit was pretty simple and the wheel now holds air bounce - only thing was that I tried to buy a new valve but ended up with a bag of 10! PM me if you need one . . .

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rick pope
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PostSubject: Re: Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others   Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others Icon_minitime1Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:47 pm

If I remember, this is a 2017 bike? Even if it has a 2015 build date, the orings should still be good. Mine are.

A simple nick in the bead, or a bit of dirt, can cause a leak like you describe. The hardest part of the repair may be breaking the bead.
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jukelemon
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PostSubject: Re: Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others   Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others Icon_minitime1Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:18 pm

rick pope wrote:
If I remember, this is a 2017 bike?  Even if it has a 2015 build date, the orings should still be good.  Mine are.

A simple nick in the bead, or a bit of dirt, can cause a leak like you describe.  The hardest part of the repair may be breaking the bead.
Yeah, agree. We took off the tire completely and cleaned it/inspected it. But a small failure would not have been caught of course.

At least now I know 1- it is not the O rings and 2- the location of the failure. That helps a great deal in solving this out.

Still a little puzzled as to why I missed it the 2x before in the water. I mean.. it is pretty obvious. Weird.

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tvboy
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PostSubject: Re: Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others   Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others Icon_minitime1Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:55 am

There is a black goo stuff you can apply to the bead that's suppose to eliminate bead related leaks. I think Mustie1 used spray-on Flex Seal. I've got a leaky spoke o-ring so next time the front tire comes off I'm going to try latex exterior house paint. I think that would work well and not be too big of a mess.
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jukelemon
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PostSubject: Re: Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others   Leaking Spokes but.. not the same as others Icon_minitime1Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:53 am

tvboy wrote:
There is a black goo stuff you can apply to the bead that's suppose to eliminate bead related leaks. I think Mustie1 used spray-on Flex Seal. I've got a leaky spoke o-ring so next time the front tire comes off I'm going to try latex exterior house paint. I think that would work well and not be too big of a mess.
Thanks.

A new tire solved the issue. I think my friend's trailer's tire lock damaged the tire on the way back. It is way too coincidental and odd.

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