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 Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly

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PostSubject: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:45 am

Secure the machine, becker stand and sump stand, Paubrice idea of supporting handlebars/upper yoke off a beam is a good one saves them wandering on the tank.
I only split mine as thought maybe polish Onurs risers only can't as coated.
Obviously drain the fork oil.

If you have any lower fork damage light rust spots, not excessive to the point it will impact the seals clean it up.
Then secure some rags to the bottom to ensure new seals travel nowhere near these pits.
This will impact your disassembly marginally as well as pumping new oil in.
You can get around it unless you want to re-chrome or replace your fork legs.

As much as it irks me to say so Laughing Beetles bodge gave me the inspiration.
Seen lots use sash straps with some form of upper securing/clamp method.

Well this is what I did, can't do step by step photographs as don't possess 3 arms although did sort of.
I used an allen key on the top oil feed hole to lever the tube to one side.
Then inserted a long slender screw driver thru the oil feed hole past the compression adjuster rod.
Screwdriver doesn't bear down on the rod as those parts all move.
Two finger and some pull the spring down, go on are you a man or a mouse, then hold momentarily to pull top adjuster back up.
This will expose the 14mm nut.
Pop a spanner on the nut and this will hold the spring for you.
Keeping 14mm spanner on locknut with ease use a 22mm spanner on preload adjuster and unlock the pair.
Holding spanner on 14mm nut spin off the top adjuster assembly, it takes longer than you think to spin it off.

Seperate all items and extract the spring.
If your doing valving you need to undo that bolt in the bottom of the fork leg, yea am not going that far, hopefully Rolling Eyes
To remove the seals, pop dust cap, remove big spring circlip.
Cool/hot tip, heat around the external area of the seal and bronze bush area with heat gun on the fork leg, leave a couple mins, then one or two good tugs will will have the seal and bush out nicely.
Upper bush under seal should be all grey teflon coated on the inside, any bronze showing thru replace, bottom bush top of chrome tube should be all grey on the outside.

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Assembly is an altogether different ball game and you may well need some form of ratchet compressor system.
I'll update this thread when I have to deal with it.


Last edited by Buellbloke on Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:58 am; edited 11 times in total

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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:11 pm

You've done an impressive job working through/refreshing a lot of that bike, thanks for posting the project pictures and sharing the occasional glitch/solution! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:50 pm

SMTCapeCod wrote:
You've done an impressive job working through/refreshing a lot of that bike, thanks for posting the project pictures and sharing the occasional glitch/solution!  [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Thanks for noticing Very Happy Cool , am respraying bottom yoke as well as polishing the 6 bolt holes and the lower caliper/axle mount, seem lots have oxidation on these parts.
The common choice of paint seems to be Hammerite smooth satin black, the yoke actual colour is like a chocolate black and the bottoms a gunmetal grey, are 100's of gunmetal greys.
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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:18 am

Nice write up Paul Very Happy ; any plans to upgrade the woeful damping with different valving ??

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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:47 am

paulbrice wrote:
Nice write up Paul Very Happy ; any plans to upgrade the woeful damping with different valving ??


First time stripping an upside down fork as it is, could have been easier if weren't the cartridge type.
Assembly already has me head scratching.
My original intention was just to replace springs with K-Tech version at the higher spring rate and use a 5w oil to ease the escape around the shims @ around 450ml.
Now it seems as though one of the valves is acting up, have a nice suction effect on one leg and nothing on the other?
If do change the valving will be a hit and miss affair as know nothing about that department.
Not a chance am buying replacement valves as them things is mega expensive, this time last year could afford anything.


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Nobleswood
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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:58 am

How about this; I changed the valving on my forks & have the old valves around here somewhere.

If it would help I can put them in the post & you’d have them in a week / 10 days

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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:08 am

Nobleswood wrote:
How about this; I changed the valving on my forks & have the old valves around here somewhere.

If it would help I can put them in the post & you’d have them in a week / 10 days

Your a darlin but surely if am in there playing with them?
Am not imagining them to be knackered or anything, the above is probably something simples.
How much did it cost you to upgrade to your new setup?
Have seen threads where peeps swapped out the shims but seems somewhat hit and miss.
Let me have a gander and if do have an issue/damage maybe take you up on your offer Cool
Thankyou very much Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:43 am

Off the top of my head I think I paid around $300 for the valves & shims
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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:46 am

Nobleswood wrote:
Off the top of my head I think I paid around $300 for the valves & shims

Yea no way am paying a wedge like that I mean look at those things, could buy two new fork legs for less.
Think I sorted my lack of swoosh sound on left leg, was just oil doing its job of lubricating.
Once apart and wiped down then loaded back up they both sound identical.
Now the valves are exposed wtf do I do with them Laughing

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Oh yea a tip for anyone who cares to read, should you have trouble removing the bolt from bottom of the leg.
A. Remove the two pinch bolts you ninny doh! bom  Laughing
B. First crack the bolt loose then use a drill with reverse action set to slow and set to hammer, I had to use a cut down allen bolt.
Push the spring pre load rod in as you do it, though not too tight incase it chews your finger Laughing


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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:27 pm

Thanks so much for posting this! I couldn’t figure out how to get the fork apart, but this post got me through it. Now to replace the seals and get it back together…

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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:33 pm

GuZeee wrote:
Thanks so much for posting this! I couldn’t figure out how to get the fork apart, but this post got me through it. Now to replace the seals and get it back together…

Your main issue will be the damper rod upon re-assembly as drops down into the lower part of the leg.
Either buy the tool or use some cable ties around the nut and a decent vertical loop off of that.
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Same process should work for assembly as disassembly.
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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:08 pm

Wow, got it back together again. That was tricky! I used nylon rope through the oil hole to compress the spring enough to get to the 14mm nut, then basically do the reverse of removal.

Thanks again for the help, I thought I was screwed without the special tool.

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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:38 am

GuZeee wrote:
Wow, got it back together again. That was tricky! I used nylon rope through the oil hole to compress the spring enough to get to the 14mm nut, then basically do the reverse of removal.

Thanks again for the help, I thought I was screwed without the special tool.

I just laid the partly assembled fork on its side, then attached the spring pre-load adjuster and screwed it up unitl it hit the locknut.
Used the same screwdriver technique to expose the locknut inside the upper tube but instead used a tool instead of the spanner, 10.3/12.7 tool, buy off fleabay.
Damper rod is 10mm.
Insert angle up and slide into place, sits there tidy under the locknut.
Lock it off and add a fixed amount of oil cus did a complete fork strip.

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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:59 pm

Update forks are back together, bottom yoke and fork bottoms painted, left for a week in the warm to dry. Front end re-assembled.
Did headrace bearing re grease.
Fork Strip.
Valve repair coutesy of Tim.
New Seals and Dust Seals.
New K-tech fork springs.
5w oil at 470ml.

Intended to drop forks thru top yoke last two 4mm sections but found leg has abrasion damage.
Lower yokes have internal beveled edges, weather and abrasion causes paint wear.
I would have rotated leg as rear is clear but have nasty scratch touched up appears as leg is rotated, blah!
Reason for drop is to counter quicker steering due to fitting Stelvio shock.

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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Tue Feb 15, 2022 6:46 am

Test ride results ?
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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:08 am

paulbrice wrote:
Test ride results ?

No fuel in the tank I mean like bone dry, not that it fits the frame any better.
Am yet to set the sag, can manage the front alone but need another to help do the rear.
Sag for front with no spring pre load applied, just the bikes own weight is just shy of Inch and half, damping still feels like shit, for my weight the less oil 470ml v 520ml might be too little.
Bike defo looks lower at the front on level ground though could be an optical illusion Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil

I don't suppose you have an "Actual Picture of the Relays with the High Amp Solenoid Wire Attached" in your collection.
I read Startus Interuptus twice and not once does it show or explain the exact relay and wire.
Unless you understand wiring schematics which I never have  Sad
Peeps who struggle on here to do most anything on their bikes were like having a Idea
Me being colour blind had no such moments  Shocked
I have that MPH kit from the USA coming but will still need to fit the solenoid wire, would think the MPH kit included the cable fused in, price they charge Shocked

Got me some 27amp cable same stuff Martin Arundal used on his Cafe Racer GRiSO.
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Watched that video lots of times  Smile



He could have done an up close on that one.
Might ask him for that portion of the video so can slow it down Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:06 pm

unloaded sag of 37mm at the front seems a lot?

From what i have read here and elsewhere I was aiming for around 12mm unloaded sag and 35mm (25-30% of suspension travel) with rider'

Or am i wrong?

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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:00 pm

lcjohnny wrote:
unloaded sag of 37mm at the front seems a lot?

From what i have read here and elsewhere I was aiming for around 12mm unloaded sag and 35mm (25-30% of suspension travel) with rider'

Or am i wrong?


I hate math/numbers am a physical bloke I just do it. Prob why only managed sag on mtb hardtail front forks and Buell back end.

35mm is less than 1.5inches, heard should always aim for this side of inch and three quarters on the fronts 40mm there abouts.

The K-tech Springs are about 5mm shorter than stock off the bat.
The Stelvio shock is adding to front end weight by lifting the back end.
Prob why total length unsprung is 123mm, just shy of 5inches, will never see all that.
Am looking at about 3 - 3.5 inches about 80-90 mm of combined sag and travel.
Tune rider sag for approx 40-43.75mm and expect around an additional 44+mm of travel.
The idea is to be in the sprung weight tighter going down as coming up.

Your asking the wrong bloke bom
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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:25 am

I don't have any pics of relays (or big wire upgrades) on GRiSO - for some reason (best known to the bike), and despite the battery is at least 10 years old, it's never shown any starting problem....so I've left well alone Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:25 am

Hopefully others will flood in !

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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:57 am

The best Startus Interruptus fix that know of was posted on this Ghetto

Sorry I can't remember who did it.

But they mounted a new relay under the starter motor. It is triggered by the original thin wire to the solenoid trigger and switches a high amperage feed from the unswitched power feed to the solenoid (very short thick wire) that power is switched to another very short thick wire to the solenoid trigger.

Really good fix - very tidy and minimal mucking about with the original loom. Thumbs Up



Of course I saw it after i had painstakingly squeezed a 27.5amp, 3mm sq. 44 strand  (bit bigger than American Wire Gauge 13) red wire to a fuse and then a yellow one with red bands to both the "starter relay" and the "starter maintenance relay" and then another 27.5a yellow wire down to the solenoid.

This shows the 4 relays from the rack under the left bodywork - it gets very tight when you put them back with big wires [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Evil or Very Mad jocolor Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 17, 2022 7:25 am

lcjohnny wrote:


Of course I saw it after i had painstakingly squeezed a 27.5amp, 3mm sq. 44 strand  (bit bigger than American Wire Gauge 13) red wire to a fuse and then a yellow one with red bands to both the "starter relay" and the "starter maintenance relay" and then another 27.5a yellow wire down to the solenoid.

This shows the 4 relays from the rack under the left bodywork - it gets very tight when you put them back with big wires Evil or Very Mad jocolor Sad



Good picture  Cool I never seen it posted in the Startus Interuptus thread?
Is it a defacto requirement to link the Starter Relay and the Maintenance Relay?
Currently have a heated grips fused cut off wire poking directly out of that yellow starter relay wire socket, its about 2inches long with the fuse.
Was hoping to plug in the MPH kit then just run the thicker wire off that heated grips wire to the solenoid.

Please forgive me for being a complete dork where electrics are concerned but the item circled with a thick red and yellow wire is the right light switch according to the diagram.
The Starter Relay and Maintenance Relays are shown as identical and side by side. (White plugs)
There are no thick wires coming out of the Maintenance Relay?
Am clueless with electrics  bom

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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:01 am

You can see the order of the 4 relays as installed on my GRiSO on the attached diagram -
The front of the bike is to the right
the order may be different on different bikes.  And the order may not be the same as the order shown on the wiring diagram.
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The wiring diagram is hard to understand because
(1) So much of it goes to and from the ECUs
(2) Guzzi wiring colours are not always clear e.g. their pale blue looks grey, some of the reds look brown and some of the stripes are needle thin so you cannot see if it is a striped wire without a 360deg view of it

i had a lot of good advice from Kiwi Roy's posts on this site

SORRY ALL I SHOULDNT BE POSTING THIS IN A FORK SERVICING THREAD


Last edited by lcjohnny on Fri Feb 18, 2022 1:08 am; edited 1 time in total

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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 17, 2022 2:41 pm

lcjohnny wrote:

SORRY ALL I SHOULDNT BE POSTING THIS IN A FORK SERVICING THREAD

Kudos to Kiwi Roy heard his name all over this topic.
I like that diagram better, I did think if you got it wrong it would blow the shit out of thing I thought it was Laughing
Really difficult teaching my foggy brain stuff it hates to learn, math and electrics and I bomb, will get there though as its next on my list  Smile
Hopefully sorted before this month is out.
Your diagram and picture are in the folder Cool

Its My Thread you can post what you like, take it over even Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly   Fork Seals/Springs/ Disassembly Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 18, 2022 4:35 am

I use the MPH kit on my 2014 and all I had to do was plug it in to the relay and it’s connecting cable and connect to the battery. It comes fused but they had a 15amp fuse in it. It would blow once in a while so I went to a 20 and it’s blown maybe once every other year. I didn’t change any wires. For my 2014, it was the relay closest to the front of the bike. Had to loosen up the side panel to get to it.
Good luck.
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