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 Exhaust Sensor

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GuzziSteve
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BobW981
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PostSubject: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:43 pm

I got 3 exhausts with the bike. It came fitted with an Ipothesys which is *very* loud, but the bike doesn’t run well, popping and banging on the overruns. Therefore I was dubious about the previous owner’s claim the it was professionally set up, and ran great 🤪 I was given the OEM 8 exhaust, and a Termignoni.
Digging into the bike’s history, the Termignoni was supplied & fitted by the original supplying dealer. My thoughts are that it’s mapping will have been done correctly for the Termi since it was under warranty at that time.

Today I finally decided to tackle the exhaust swap over… Doh! The exhaust sensor is rock solid and refusing to move.
I’ve unplugged its sensor, and removed it complete. Got a couple of days before I can do some more.

Question: I’m looking to carefully apply some heat with a blowtorch to then ‘persuade’ it to loosen. Is this normal?

Bob
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Tue Feb 08, 2022 3:22 pm


It’s not normal. It shouldn’t be done up that tight.




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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Tue Feb 08, 2022 3:26 pm

Bob, it's a pretty hostile environment where the sensor is. You could try some penetrating fluid or make some yourself, if you don't have any (50% ATF, 50% Acetone). Probably rusted in...

On the mapping front, I don't believe there was any mapping done for the Termi, not from the factory/dealers anyway. Beetle has a map for the Termi and it obviates the sensor anyway, so a plug would serve just as well.

There are lots of claims about a lot of things - bike exhausts included. Unless you have hard proof, consider it not done. Others may chime in and add their opinion. Go:

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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:52 pm

If it was professionally tuned I'd check the paint on the magic screw & see if it's been messed with.
Popping & banging isn't normal, I'd Sync & reset TPS after Termi install. Make sure airscrews are closed.

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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:26 am

What Tony said Wink ; the Termni was a homologated alternative to the original, which means you can swap it in with no other changes & it still meets Euro4 (or whatever they were aiming for then) emissions etc. I've switched between OEM & Termni with the same (Beetle) map & it didn't have any differences beyond noise & vibration from the pipe....Termni map didn't seem to make much difference either IMHO.

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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:21 pm

Thanks guys, as ever a huge source of information. Very grateful 👍
I will try your suggestions over next couple of days and see what I find. Fingers crossed 🤞

I noticed that Beetle had a map for the Termi, and it is my intention to install his map, and have been offered local assistance along with setting(?) TPS.

BOB
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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 12, 2022 12:12 am

Have you got a ring spanner round it?
it is a big hex and there should be enough torque to get it out without damaging the probe if it is supported all round?
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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:58 am

Beetle, I didn’t think it should be this difficult. I’m assuming it is a standard right hand thread?

lcjohnny wrote:
Have you got a ring spanner round it?
it is a big hex and there should be enough torque to get it out without damaging the probe if it is supported all round?

Jon, the hex nut is 22mm, and I considered that, but the electrical connector on the other end is 32mm 😟

GuzziSteve wrote:
If it was professionally tuned I'd check the paint on the magic screw & see if it's been messed with.
Popping & banging isn't normal, I'd Sync & reset TPS after Termi install. Make sure airscrews are closed.

With the exhaust off, and a closer inspection I found that the flats of the sensor’s not has the telltale signs of a gorilla at work Mad
As a result I definitely will be going over everything.

Bob
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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:25 am

Oz1200Guzzi wrote:
[SNIP]
On the mapping front, I don't believe there was any mapping done for the Termi, not from the factory/dealers anyway. Beetle has a map for the Termi and it obviates the sensor anyway, so a plug would serve just as well.
[SNIP]

I had delayed getting Mark’s map until I had swapped over the exhaust. So… does anybody know a source for a plug, or the thread size (sorry I’m being lazy lol)

Bob
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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:53 am

BobW981 wrote:
Beetle, I didn’t think it should be this difficult. I’m assuming it is a standard right hand thread?

lcjohnny wrote:
Have you got a ring spanner round it?
it is a big hex and there should be enough torque to get it out without damaging the probe if it is supported all round?

Jon, the hex nut is 22mm, and I considered that, but the electrical connector on the other end is 32mm 😟
Bob

Can the terminals be freed from the electrical connector? (usually by using a watchmakers screwdriver to depress a little metal tang on each).

If so the terminals could be threaded through a 22mm ring spanner or socket
- if the hex has been damaged a 6 sided (rather than 12 pointed) socket is more gentle and stronger

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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 14, 2022 12:11 pm


It's a standard right-hand thread. If I may make a bad suggestion..a shifting spanner with a length of pipe to increase the torque....




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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:21 pm

Oz1200Guzzi wrote:
Bob, it's a pretty hostile environment where the sensor is.

Nothing hostile happening to mine Very Happy
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:25 pm

Think from memory it's an 18 mm x 1.5 (edit - thanks Mal) mm thread. It's sold through various outlets as a Hydraulic plug. RS Components have them, though you will have to make an Al or Cu washer to fit.


Last edited by Oz1200Guzzi on Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:02 pm

Buellbloke wrote:
Oz1200Guzzi wrote:
Bob, it's a pretty hostile environment where the sensor is.

Nothing hostile happening to mine Very Happy
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

My cable has no outer sleeve, only showing are 2 wires, twisted badly (trapped as sensor was graunched tight?). I’ll add a pic when I’m next out there.

Bob
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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:08 am

The hostility is on the inside - HEAT and FUMES
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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Tue Feb 15, 2022 4:08 am

BobW981 wrote:
My cable has no outer sleeve, only showing are 2 wires, twisted badly (trapped as sensor was graunched tight?). I’ll add a pic when I’m next out there.
Bob

That sleeve is present, its a short piece, on many bikes only the wires are showing.
It's probably further up stuck behind the starter motor. unless you removed that part (link pipe) and the wires are bare some f*cker cut it off  bom
Whether you have the wires or the sleeve is personal taste, me I prefer the extra protection where I can see it.
The wires are twisted because the sensor was removed and refitted still connected to its plug.
Remove starter cover, locate plug, unplug, untwist, slide sleeve down, re connect plug.

As for your stuck probe, just use lots of WD40 and leave to penetrate.
Remove the pretzel as the boss calls it, the link pipe or part the sensor is in. Bench it and attack it.
Threads are course (wide spaced) like a spark plug it should come off, worst case it snaps you drill it and remove it/replace it.
Any reputable bike shop/car shop/garage/engineers will attack it for you if you feel you lack the confidence or tools.
Replace it like a spark plug just pinch it down enough and use some copaslip on the threads.

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MalG
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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:11 pm

Did you get the sensor loose yet? I've found the more miles on the header, the harder it seems to be to loosen it. It's easier if the header is off the bike & on the bench. Access & leverage improved. Of course, you have to find the connector & unplug it.
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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:25 pm

The blanking plugs (to replace the sensor after beetle mapping) are M18x1.5. (I always double check with the calipers & the thread gauge). I prefer brass ones, but they seem to be harder to get hold of than stainless. Some have a hex head (22mm?), others a socket for an Allen key. I ended up getting hold of several from different sources & found some threads fitted tighter than others - those from one source fitted only loosely - still in the cupboard for emergencies (I have had a couple work themselves loose & disappear). The joys of buying online.
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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:18 am

MalG wrote:
The blanking plugs (to replace the sensor after beetle mapping) are M18x1.5. (I always double check with the calipers & the thread gauge). I prefer brass ones, but they seem to be harder to get hold of than stainless. Some have a hex head (22mm?), others a socket for an Allen key. I ended up getting hold of several from different sources & found some threads fitted tighter than others - those from one source fitted only loosely - still in the cupboard for emergencies (I have had a couple work themselves loose & disappear). The joys of buying online.

Beetle would prefer you leave the sensor where it is, as its non functioning it's also non harming.
Plus in these days of ever stricter emissions laws it not being there could cause you a greivance with your MOT station.
And him Beetle aggro for creating the map in the first place.
Personally am of the mindset to leave it alone, anything that keeps plod happy and me on two wheels works for me.

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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Tue Feb 22, 2022 9:40 am

Thanks guys. It is off the bike, and has been soaked in release oil for a few days. Still proving stubborn with a fixed open ended spanner, even when supplemented by a ring spanner on the opposite end.
Beetle, a ‘shifter’ isn’t best use for this use. Reason is that it’s adjustable mechanism allows a little play in the jaws. A pipe is always a good gentle persuasion on a fixed spanner.

The crazy bit is that this is a ‘15 bike with 4K miles. Plus this exhaust has only been in place for maybe half of that, certainly not long enough to tighten without being abused.
Btw. it doesn’t look like there’s a washer under this, just another indicator of how it’s been treated.

Later in the week I intend to take it to a local engineering workshop, and see if they can assist.

Bob
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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:11 pm

I don't think any of the lambda sensors come with washers.

I've found it a great relief to have access to professionals - they've a much better idea of the required techniques & necessary pressures. When I'm concerned about breaking something, now I go for assistance earlier, rather than waiting till I've sheared some bolt.

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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:01 pm

You could chill the sensor and heat the pipe - should give clearance enough to break the seal.
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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:27 pm

Thursday afternoon I left it with the engineering works, shall collect Friday pm. 🤞
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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 02, 2022 7:00 am

MalG wrote:
I don't think any of the lambda sensors come with washers.

There is a small crush washer on the sensor 👍

With a “little heat on the boss, the Lambda sensor came out easily”   cheers

When I can next get to the bike/garage I’ll refit the sensor into the Termignoni.


I’ve picked up an M18 plug complete with copper washer. Once I’ve added Beetle’s map, do I leave the Lamda sensor in place or fit the plug?  
Pros & cons please?

Bob
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PostSubject: Re: Exhaust Sensor   Exhaust Sensor Icon_minitime1Wed Mar 02, 2022 8:59 am

bom Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil Rolling Eyes Mad Question Arrow Thumbs Up


Last edited by Buellbloke on Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:02 pm; edited 2 times in total
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