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 8V needs to be warmed up?

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BrianD
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KenGriso
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PostSubject: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Sun May 22, 2022 7:50 am

Hi everyone,

I recently got a stock 2017 8V with 6k miles on it. If I start the bike cold and try to rev the engine it will die. The first mile ion riding cold is rough. Other than that the bike runs great. I added a Beetle map but that didn't resolve it. Any idea what the issue is?

Thanks,

Ken

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JohnA
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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Sun May 22, 2022 10:17 am

Hi Ken,

First, welcome to the Ghetto. My 2014 has never really lived in a real cold place. But mine, especially with less miles on it (I have 24,000 now) would think about stalling if I grabbed the throttle right away after hitting the start button. My routine for years has been to hit the start button and do nothing. It will get to a smooth idle in seconds if I leave it alone. In the mean time, I go back in the garage a suit up. And in a couple of minutes, she’s good to go.
Good luck. I’m sure others will tell you their stories too.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Sun May 22, 2022 1:04 pm

When was it last tuned?
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GuzziSteve
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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Sun May 22, 2022 1:24 pm

I would look in the airbox or exhaust for varmints that built a nest. Specially if it sat for a period
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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Sun May 22, 2022 2:46 pm

Same issue when i bought mine. (2009 and waited for me a couple of years) After 500km it's getting better. Ken welcome. Lot to read and learn in the ghetto.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Sun May 22, 2022 3:13 pm


Should be able to start & ride. Check the airbox for oil (or varmints), and might be time for tune up.



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KenGriso
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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Sun May 22, 2022 3:38 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
When was it last tuned?

I balanced the throttle bodies but I haven't checked the valves yet. Do you think setting the valve lash could resolve the problem? If so, what should I set them at? Thanks!
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Sun May 22, 2022 3:49 pm


4 & 6 thou. 0.1mm & 0.15mm

You should balance the TB's again afterwards.





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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Sun May 22, 2022 5:47 pm

And recalibrate the TPS.
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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Mon May 23, 2022 12:44 am

Mine is the same (& has never improved with balancing etc)....it's fine in cold with original factory map (but that runs like sh*te in every other situation); it's fine in cold with a 'rich' map I got from mate here (but that burns a lot of fuel generally)....so for the sake of a minute or two of cold start stumbling, I just live with it.
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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Mon May 23, 2022 3:53 pm

My 17 has been doing that since new. My 13 also was not cold blooded. Started the bike, smoked a butt and then was ready to go. When it was 40F and colder, it seemed to never warm up.
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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Mon May 23, 2022 8:14 pm

Thanks for your input and commiseration, everyone. I set the valves, balanced the TBs and reset the TPS. It's very warm out now so it's hard to say what effect the tuneup had. If I rev it cold, the bike doesn't die but the engine hesitates a full second before roaring. It's as if the ECU delays the signal to the coils and injectors.
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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Tue May 24, 2022 12:18 am

Is the bike stock. Have you changed the muffler or air filter? (You say in your first post it's stock but people's idea of 'Stock' is very flexible.) and have the TB's been fiddled with in any way apart from the air bleeds and bell crank screw?
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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Tue May 24, 2022 12:35 am


Yeah..nah. ECU doesn't operate like that. More than likely throttle related. Use GuzziDiag to record the throttle (TPS) operation. File -> Preferences -> Extras -> Value Logging


With engine off, open the throttle slowly, then quickly. Then with the engine running, blip the throttle. Look at the log and take note of any gaps/jumps or inconsistencies.





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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Tue May 24, 2022 6:26 am

Pete Roper wrote:
Is the bike stock. Have you changed the muffler or air filter? (You say in your first post it's stock but people's idea of 'Stock' is very flexible.) and have the TB's been fiddled with in any way apart from the air bleeds and bell crank screw?

The bike is factory stock no mods at all and none of the sacred bits have been fiddled with. It seems this is fairly common with this bike based on there responses I've gotten.
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KenGriso
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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Tue May 24, 2022 12:37 pm

I wonder if removing the "tip over valve" might solve it.
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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Tue May 24, 2022 6:06 pm

Ken, What Pete was referring to is the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor). These can get a worn spot on them which can cause the issue seen. The same unit is used on some Ducatis. By opening the throttle slowly while logging you should get smooth and steady changing numbers. If you get erratic readings you have a funny spot on your TPS. The TPS tells the ECU what throttle you are demanding and it delivers fuel/air/advance/retard accordingly. If you have a dirty/worn sensor it confuses the heck out of the ECU.

While not likely a problem, It's worth doing to make sure everything is OK in the TPS area. Thereafter, you can look at other issues.

My 2V Dunger does this when cold and seems related to the air bleed screws being set wrong or the throttle balance is not correct. I would be looking in that area. Try it with both bleeds closed.

The tip over sensor generally won't do anything until the bike is on its side and only after a delay, so probably not.
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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Tue May 24, 2022 7:36 pm


I think he’s referring to the mechanical tip over valve on the tank we don’t get them here. Only in North America I believe.



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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Tue May 24, 2022 8:44 pm

Oh. I have one on my bike AND it works!
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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Tue May 24, 2022 8:51 pm


Oh. Very interesting.


Question




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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Tue May 24, 2022 9:44 pm

It's on the inside of the right top frame rail, just above the R/H cylinder head. I could show you one day when you come up!
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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Wed May 25, 2022 12:50 am


I thought it only existed on bikes with the fuel vapour recovery system.


Curiouser & curiouser.




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lcjohnny
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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Wed May 25, 2022 12:59 am

I have one up behind the steering head under the ignition switch, just seen it
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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Wed May 25, 2022 1:56 am


That's the electronic one. We all have that. Some bike shave a mechanical valve as part of the fuel breather system.





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BrianD
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PostSubject: Re: 8V needs to be warmed up?   8V needs to be warmed up? Icon_minitime1Wed May 25, 2022 4:45 am

I've got the mechanical ball bearing setup under the seat alongside the relays on my Sport
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