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 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested

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PJPR01
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PostSubject: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:47 pm

Ecu error 60
SERVICE MESSAGE
Red Triangle
Present mileage: 5700 miles...have had the bike since it had 570 miles on it....no other issues.

Runs a Beetle Map for the last several years, runs great, smooth, no misses, gets 42 mpg...just perfect.

All present errors above came on on the last 10 miles of a nice 200 miler last weekend.

Guzzidiag shows P0505 error code (Stepper motor), and I notice that when trying to activate the stepper motor via Guzzidiag (engine on), it does nothing to the idle at all.

Have checked the following items:
1. Replaced plugs, brand new...no difference, error and running still the same, Red Triangle, Service and runs rough at idle. Plugs were a little dark, but dry, but not tan colored...so good to replace.
2. Have replaced spark plug wires with NGK's, switched sides with original plug wires, no change, still getting Red Triangle, Service, and runs rough at idle. That's good news in a way, tells me my original plug wires are still just fine.
3. I took the tank off, did have the RHS tube that connects to the airbox disconnected, so I fixed both sides and put Oertiker clamps on the rubber tubes to prevent them from coming off.
4. Put an Oertiker clamp also on the Stepper motor tube.
5. Disconnected all electrical connections under the tank, cleaned with electrical spray...reconnected...no change in running, error messages continue to show up in Guzzidiag and SERVICE/Red triangle still on.
6. Checked oil level...perfect, no oil buildup in the airbox.
7. Sprayed throttle body cleaner into the TB's while the bike is running...no change in running, flaps, TB's look super clean.
8. Tried to clear the error messages via the Diagnostics menu, but they don't clear...obviously the stepper keeps throwing the error code, and Guzzidiag continues to show ECU 60 error.
9. Have read all the threads on this site about Red Triangle/Service, Stepper motors, stepper bypass valves...and am left at this point...thinking I am facing having to replace the Stepper motor, assuming I can find one...so, any other suggestions to try before throwing $300 or more towards a new stepper motor?

Thanks!
Paul
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:21 pm


Search eBay for a set of Ducati throttle bodies. They use the same stepper, and you can get a complete set of Ducati throttle bodies cheaper than a second hand Guzzi stepper.




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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:30 pm


I just checked. Gotham Cycles in Florida have 7 used stepper motors listed on eBay.

Dubbo bike wreckers in Oz has a complete set of Ducati 748 throttle bodies for AU $150, complete with stepper.




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PJPR01
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:15 pm

Thanks Mark…will check right away. So I take it there’s nothing else to do in this case…no way to reactivate or resuscitate the existing one. Odd it would have expired after only 6000 miles but perhaps it’s really the time factor…who knows.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 05, 2022 7:07 pm


If you've checked and reseated the stepper connector, and you still have no joy with the Guzzidiag stepper test, then there's a good chance it's buggered.

A simple test is to switch the key on, and after the fuel pump has primed, turn the key off. You should be able to hear the stepper whirring. If not, either the stepper has failed, or the wiring is damaged or open circuit. It's unlikely to be the ECU.




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PJPR01
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 05, 2022 7:33 pm

beetle wrote:

If you've checked and reseated the stepper connector, and you still have no joy with the Guzzidiag stepper test, then there's a good chance it's buggered.

A simple test is to switch the key on, and after the fuel pump has primed, turn the key off. You should be able to hear the stepper whirring. If not, either the stepper has failed, or the wiring is damaged or open circuit. It's unlikely to be the ECU.




 Excellent..will try that again, have disconnected and cleaned the stepper electrical connector twice, but no luck so far...will try the key test.  Wonder if I should look for a blown fuse hidden somewhere, I've checked all that I could find, none blown. Will need to find which fuse controls the stepper.

Have a stepper from Gotham on its way to me in a few days...hopefully it's just the motor and not a wiring issue, as I have a feeling that will be harder to chase down than a simple mechanical replacement.   Much appreciate the helpful tips!
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:09 pm


There's no fuse. It's only connected to the ECU.





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PJPR01
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:10 pm

beetle wrote:

There's no fuse. It's only connected to the ECU.






Ok...that makes sense...thanks!
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PJPR01
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:24 am

beetle wrote:

If you've checked and reseated the stepper connector, and you still have no joy with the Guzzidiag stepper test, then there's a good chance it's buggered.

A simple test is to switch the key on, and after the fuel pump has primed, turn the key off. You should be able to hear the stepper whirring. If not, either the stepper has failed, or the wiring is damaged or open circuit. It's unlikely to be the ECU.

Ok...tried the key test technique this morning...first I disconnected the stepper again, then reconnected it.

On the first key test, the stepper did make some noise, more like a rattling noise for a few seconds, and then silent.

Tried a second time, and no noise from the stepper.

Tried a third time, and again no noise from the stepper.

Conclusion...the motor is dead (and hopefully not anything wrong with the wiring), ideally the Gotham Ducati replacement one is good!

Thanks again Mark.

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TimOz
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Thu Sep 15, 2022 2:30 pm

Some advice from a Stelvio owner here.
From what you describe, it sounds like the motor is active. If it makes any noise at all, it is at least getting power.

It may be that the valve piston is jammed or blocked.

In my case, i had dodgy idle and my stepper did not make any noise or alter idle at all. I tried the carb cleaner flush a few times to no avail.
I took the stepper unit out and with a bit of fiddling I found the plastic bodied stepper is able to be dissembled.
These is a metal clip like a 2 pronged fork that slides out horizontally. The top of the unit is attached with a bayonet system. It is tight and sealed with an o-ring. Turn it carefully counter-clockwise (from memory). And you can pull out the motor and piston. Do this carefully. The motor is connected to the piston with a threaded rod.

I cleaned the piston and cylinder out and there was some "stuff" in there that was jamming the piston. It all seemed in very good condition with no scoring at all. I used Teflon spray lube very frugally and wiped off the excess.

I reassembled and when doing this, when the stepper first starts using GuzziDiag, it seems to self set the threaded rod.
Tested it and it works well and has been perfect for about 10 k km.

Just an idea to spend some time and maybe save some $$. If you break it, you have only spent the time.


Last edited by TimOz on Thu Sep 15, 2022 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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PJPR01
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:02 pm

TimOz wrote:
Some advice from a Stelvio owner here.
From what you describe, it sounds like the motor is active. If it makes any noise at all, it is at least getting power.

It may be that the valve piston is jammed or blocked.

In my case, i had dodgy idle and my stepper did not make any noise or alter idle at all. I tried the carb cleaner flush a few times to no avail.
I took the stepper init out and with a bit of fiddling i found the plastic bodied stepper is able to be dissembled.
These is a metal clip like a 2 pronged fork that slides out horizontally. The top of the unit is attached with a bayonet system. It is tight and sealed with an o-ring. Turn it carefully counter-clockwise (from memory). And you can pull out the motor and piston. Do this carefully. The motor is connected to the piston with a threaded rod.

I cleaned the piston and cylinder out and there was some "stuff" in there that was jamming the piston. It all seemed in very good condition with no scoring at all. I used Teflon spray lube very frugally and wipef off a excess.

I reassembled and when doing this, when the stepper first starts using GuzziDiag, it seems to self set the threaded rod.
Tested it and it works well and has been perfect for about 10 k km.

Just an idea to spend some time and maybe save some $$. If you break it, you have only spent the time.

Thanks Timo! Excellent - I've got the stepper motor sitting on my desk at the moment, while I'm awaiting the arrival of the replacement unit from Gotham...they're taking forever to deliver, theoretically it arrives in 2 more days, so that will give me some time to do the above.  Would be wonderful if I can fix it!  Much appreciated!!

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PJPR01
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:26 pm

Not having much luck getting it disassembled. It was sticky and unable to rotate, but with some spray cleaner I've been able to get it to rotate relatively smoothly in the housing, but so far haven't been able to get it to come off just yet.

Timo...do you recall how far you had to rotate it before it would come off?

Thanks again.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:13 pm

Hi Pete/Mark,

Is there anyway you are familiar with to get rid of the SERVICE and Red Triangle related to this Stepper motor error I have if I simply disconnect the stepper, connect the tubes and leave the wiring detached?  Could the error be cleared or overridden at that point?

I'm just thinking thru various scenarios since I haven't received the replacement one yet from Gotham...slow as molasses shipping on their part!
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:24 pm


AFAIK, the ECU can't know the position of the stepper, so any stepper error code is voltage related. Error 60 is going to be open or short circuit. If you leave it disconnected, I'm pretty sure that error will remain.


You might want to check across the pins of the connector from the ECU that your reading a voltage.







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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:31 pm

The stepper has to be connected or the error will remain. If you want to isolate it you can simply disconnect it's hoses or cap the spigots on the throttlebodies.

Clearing the errors can be done through he dash.
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PJPR01
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:40 pm

Ok thank you both!!… I will check voltage on the wiring connector as so far I haven’t been able to clear the error message successfully through the dash diagnostic process.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:47 pm

You have checked all the codes? Not just assumed it is the stepper?
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:11 pm


ECU 60 and P0505 are stepper errors.



Have you checked the pins on the ECU itself? A clean and reseat may be all you need.




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PJPR01
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:36 pm

Yes that is the only error message I have and with Guzzidiag hooked up I saw no change in idle speed when triggering the stepper motor….

Today I tried to disassemble my stepper but I can’t get it apart yet.  Theoretically my replacement Ducati motor arrives tomorrow…will see if it behaves and works…but will also test the voltage on the connectors and on the ECu.

Thanks again to both!
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:57 pm

Finally received the Ducati stepper motor from Gotham...2 weeks, very slow shipping!!

New stepper installed tonight, tank back on and connected, fired up right away. Haven't put the airbox back in yet, as I'm sure I'll have to go back in again under the tank.  Have to say that it does idle better and when started cold, the RPM's went up around 2k, and then came down to about 1200 after it warmed up (10-15 seconds), so it appears the stepper is behaving mechanically.  Bike revs cleanly and smoothly.

However...I still have the red triangle and SERVICE message, unable to clear it either thru the dash or thru Guzzidiag, and Guzzidiag does not seem to have any electronic effect on the stepper.

So...this seems like an electrical issue, not a mechanical one.  I've cleaned the electrical connectors again, tried with an Ohm meter today on the 4 prong plug that connects to the stepper, but the only readings I am getting are on the far right 2 pins, not on any combination of any other pins...so I'm wondering if the wiring is shot somewhere.

Haven't worked up the courage to get to the ECU yet, that seems like a royal pain to get to...guess I'll look at it tomorrow.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:17 pm

I really doubt it's the ecu. You have cleared the codes I assume?

ECU is easy on GRiSO. It lives under the plastic cover just below the steering head.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:30 pm

Thanks Pete…I cannot get the code to clear…the P0505 keeps showing up in Guzzidiag even after I clear it, it comes back right away, and Ecu 60 on the dash will not clear.

Stumped I am!
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested   2015 GRiSO Stepper Motor Failure - Help requested Icon_minitime1Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:30 pm

Ok, cleaned the ECU, both large connections on both sides.  There's a ton of pins on each one...amazing engineering.  No idea though how to figure out which of the pins truly controls the stepper motor, but unfortunately cleaning the ECU and the connecting cables in their pin slots extremely thoroughly and extensively and checking the ground wire hasn't solved the issue.

I suppose there's no real harm in riding it based on what I've learned in this process, just annoying to have it show SERVICE and a Red Triangle all the time.  

Ecu 60 error is still present...unless I'm not clearing it properly...and P0505 keeps showing up in Guzzidiag.

I presume that just saying Yes to clear the error once in the Diagnostics menu by holding the button for the few seconds needed is sufficient.  Do I also have to do anything with the UPDATE option?  I assume not since there's nothing I have to update here, and all my other connections are via Guzzidiag.
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