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 Power Commander/Fuelling issue

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JamesTrev
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PostSubject: Power Commander/Fuelling issue   Power Commander/Fuelling issue Icon_minitime1Mon Jan 09, 2023 8:41 am

Hey all, hope someone can shed some light on a fuelling issue I have with my bike (original GRiSO 4V, 1100cc Year2006).  I've had the bike 11 months now and covered about 2000 miles in that time.  I'm planning an extended tour around Europe for 2023 but the bike has developed a fuelling issue which I need to get sorted and have peace of mind for the trip.  

A bit of background:
I have discovered the bike has been fitted with a Power Commander (PC) unit and also that the end pipe is the version which appeared on the later 8V GRiSO models (with the figure of eight end pipe)  So I'm thinking the previous owner may have got the Power Commander fitted to re-map the bike following the fitting of the 8V version end pipe?  

The first issue I had last summer was the bike started intermittently losing power on a ride-out.  I had my local workshop check it and they managed to ‘fix’ the problem but about 500 miles later the glitch returned with momentary loss of power, mainly when accelerating hard but also occasionally when cruising at 70-80mph.  In hindsight, I should have asked more questions of the workshop about what the specific problem was and how they resolved it, I think I was just relieved and eager to get back on the road..

Then, on a late summer ride, the bike started to glitch badly and eventually died.  I got it recovered back to the house and not ridden it since as the weather got bad.  I have since managed to start the bike up a few times in the garage which suggests fuel is getting through but when revving it harder at stand-still, the glitch is still evident and I am not confident to take her out for a ride until I get the problem checked out again.  

I sounded out my nearest Guzzi franchised dealer to understand if they could help with a more robust diagnosis and they said, because the bike is a 2006 model, they can't help as it is ‘too old’.  They were also put off by the fact there is a Power Commander fitted and a non-original pipe..

I’m not sure if the Power Commander itself could be at fault? (I know it's getting Power because its light comes on when the bike is running)   Does anyone think I should get the bike dyno-tested to check the PC is actually working correctly?  I’m not really bothered about the PC and would rather have it disconnected to be honest.  I plan on getting the bike back to the workshop in the next couple of weeks but I’m just wondering, has anyone else had a similar issue (with either Power Commander Units or fuelling problems?)  Any advice on this would be great and thanks for reading my post.

Cheers, James
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GuzziSteve
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PostSubject: Re: Power Commander/Fuelling issue   Power Commander/Fuelling issue Icon_minitime1Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:12 am

Take off the PC and see how it works. Have bike tuned w/o PC. Put in a stock air filter also, they flow more air than the K&N type. Muffler on an 8V doesn't flow that much more air.
Check that you have the latest map #1103(from memory) for stock.
If you want a true improvement contact Beetle for a map made for your GRiSO.

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Power Commander/Fuelling issue   Power Commander/Fuelling issue Icon_minitime1Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:57 am

What Steve said. Power Commanders are obsolete thechnology riven with problems. While it may not be the source of your problem it should certainly be ruled out as a cause by discarding it.

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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Power Commander/Fuelling issue   Power Commander/Fuelling issue Icon_minitime1Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:09 pm



Power Commanders can cause that type of problem. I know, because I've experienced it.

Pull the injector connectors off the PC and connect them directly to the injectors. You don't need to remove the PC for this test. If the problem goes away, continue to remove the PC and smash the foul thing with a hammer.

That pipe won't make any difference.






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JamesTrev
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PostSubject: Re: Power Commander/Fuelling issue   Power Commander/Fuelling issue Icon_minitime1Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:06 am

Thanks a lot for the advice gents - decision made I'm going to ditch the PC for all the reasons given and will check over the filter.

Going to get the regular service done and then hopefully sort the Beetle re- map.
I found the following map available on GRiSO.org - "2V 1100 Factory Exhaust USD $100". The '2V' reference has confused me a bit (the other maps are for 8V models), thinking it should say 4V? Can anyone clarify that is the correct map for my bike?
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Power Commander/Fuelling issue   Power Commander/Fuelling issue Icon_minitime1Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:24 am


That's the right map. The 2V-4V-8V thing can cause confusion.

The 2V per cylinder is commonly known as a 2V engine. The 4V per cylinder is commonly called the 8V.
Guzzi didn't help much when they called the 8V Sport the 4V Sport.

I add more confusion by naming maps for the 2V engine "4V".


Clear as mud?




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JamesTrev
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PostSubject: Re: Power Commander/Fuelling issue   Power Commander/Fuelling issue Icon_minitime1Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:07 am

Thanks for clarification Beetle Thumbs Up , can see why some folk might get confused!
I absolutely love the bike and hope I can get this all sorted soon.

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JamesTrev
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PostSubject: Re: Power Commander/Fuelling issue   Power Commander/Fuelling issue Icon_minitime1Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:25 pm

Just an update on the Power Commander situation now that the sun finally came out today and I managed to take all panels off and have a good poke around.

Discovered the PC earth connection was completely loose (bolt had come loose probably from vibration). I tightened it up and used some threadlocker for good measure and took the bike for a quick spin. It seemed to run OK (well at least as good as it did before) so I am assuming that the loose earth was the main issue and that would explain the major glitches I experienced on the ride before it died? (as noted in my original post).

I then disconnected the PC and reconnected the injectors to the original loom. The bike initially started OK but then the dreaded red triangle warning light flashed up on the top right of the console and 'SERVICE' notification also showed up. I then revved the bike up and it then just cut out and I couldn't restart it. I then reconnected the PC and the Service light disappeared and the bike fired up and revved no problem. This points to an underlying problem with the stock fuel map and the PC appears to 'solve' or at least mask the issue - and likely explains why the previous owner (or owner before them) had the PC fitted. I took the bike for another spin and the glitch in the fuelling upon hard acceleration is still evident - so it seems the set-up with the PC installed is still not optimising as it should.

I STILL WANT RID OF THE PC and plan to get the Beetle map installed in the hope this solves the underlying problem (still mildly concerned I could make a cock up of it!). Question for Beetle if you read this update: I have an Apple Macbook Air with the latest Ventura OS installed. Can you confirm I can still install the relevant software and carry out a successful installation using the Macbook or would it be a lot easier to borrow a Windows laptop and use that instead?
Cheers for now, James
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Power Commander/Fuelling issue   Power Commander/Fuelling issue Icon_minitime1Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:06 pm

Does/did the bike have an 'Auto tune' widget on it as well? If so that would use a WBO sensor which would throw a service code.

Do you know anything about the provenance of any of the crap on the bike? Who installed it? What other mapping changes, if any, have been performed? Have the throttlebodies been messed with? Is it running some shithouse aftermarket air filter?

The problem is, without knowing the answer to all of these questions it's almost impossible to offer any kind of diagnostic help. Best bet would be to revert everything back to standard, including the map, and then move forward from there.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Power Commander/Fuelling issue   Power Commander/Fuelling issue Icon_minitime1Sun Mar 19, 2023 3:29 pm


Pete, if there’s an AutoTune attached, then lambda has to be deactivated in the map, otherwise there’d be a service warning every time the ECU went into closed loop mode.

James, I’ve not heard any noise about Ventura vs GuzziDiag. You will most likely need to set some permissions. Be sure to put the GuzziDiag tools in the Applications folder. This video will help with setting permissions:






I also have an early version of GuzziDiag for MacOS that should run if you don’t have any luck.




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JamesTrev
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PostSubject: Re: Power Commander/Fuelling issue   Power Commander/Fuelling issue Icon_minitime1Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:59 am

Pete, - I'm sure there is no Autotune fitted but will have to check that to be 100% sure. The only knowledge I have of the bike's history are the usual servicing receipts and no evidence of the PC installation or any separate PC paperwork. I suspect the dealer I bought the bike from had no knowledge of the PC either as it wasn't mentioned in the ad description.. Ref the filter and throttle body, I'll double-check so can eliminate that from the process, would like to think the workshop had checked this as routine maintenance!

Beetle, - noted, many thanks for the video, I'll update here soon.
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