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 A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point.

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beetle
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point.   A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point. Icon_minitime1Tue May 23, 2023 5:06 pm

We had a 1200 Sport 8V, (one of the last ones manufactured in 2011/12 even though it was plated a 2014 build.) come in yesterday for rollerisation. Now I'd spoken to the owner after he'd purchased it and although he was assured by the shop that was selling it that it was rollerised the first removal of a valve cover showed that it wasn't.

Now I'd strongly advised that at 60,000km it would be well on its way and not to ride it until it had been rollerised. Because at the time 'A' kits were in short supply it seems this advice fell on deaf ears and the bike continued to be ridden.

Anyway a couple of weeks ago I was contacted again and we now have an 'A' kit and the 'Makings' to turn it into a 'D' kit in stock so we arranged for it to come in yesterday. The owner rode it down from Sydney and by the time it got here the top end was making a hell of a hullabaloo and, worse, the big ends were knocking. It's fucked.

Hopefully rollerisation and a new set of big end shells will fix it and the mains are OK but it's a salutary lesson. I know I bang on about it but despite various theories and arguments to the contrary there are NO 'Good' or 'Better' flat tappet engines. They are all going to fail, it's just a matter of when and that is dependent on numerous factors which mean predicting the failure is very difficult.

This machine is one of the very last of the flat tappet models. These are the ones with the final iteration cams and flat tappets that certain people claim are far superior to the earlier ones. The failure is typical and identical to any others I've seen on all engines from the earliest 2008 Grisos to the very last flat tappet Stelvios and Norges.

If you own an 8V and it hasn't yet been rollerised? Please, just do it. Wishing and hoping that *Your* bike is the exception to the rule, that the problem is 'Rare' or an 'Internet Myth' is simply going to result in disappointment and anger and another of these magnificent machines being sent to the scrap heap.

Hopefully we'll be able to save this one relatively cheaply. It would of been considerably cheaper if it hadn't been allowed to reach this sad conclusion but as the owner said, although he'd heeded my warning about riding it he had obviously not realised the urgency of the issue. Pity.

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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point.   A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point. Icon_minitime1Tue May 23, 2023 5:42 pm


Sigh. Stupid is, as stupid does. Suspect




Keep pushing Pete.






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PostSubject: Re: A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point.   A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point. Icon_minitime1Tue May 23, 2023 7:25 pm

I don't think it's always stupidity. Steve, the owner of this POS is a nice, cordial, intelligent chap. I think it's just that many people find it hard to grasp that such a serious problem could of been allowed to continue for so long or that the consequences of failure can be so shattering and occur so fast!

There are many flat tappet bikes out there still and their owners think they're fine. They don't make any unusual noises and their performance isn't compromised noticeably. The problem is that they can be in a quite advanced state of destruction while showing no outside symptoms. It isn't until all the DLC has gone from the foot of the tappet that the really rapid erosion of the parent metal of the tappet and the cam lobe occurs. The thing is when that point is reached the destruction is both catastrophic and very fast!

There are people too who are deeply suspicious and just assume the whole problem is a scam by unscrupulous people, (ie me!) to get them to carry out unnecessary work so I can support my obscenely lavish lifestyle! Well if people want to believe that there ain't a lot I can do about it but I can assure them that even if my heart could stand it the amount of coke and the number of high class hookers I could afford off the back of rollerising flat tappet 8V's would need a fairly powerful electron microscope to detect! Laughing

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point.   A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point. Icon_minitime1Tue May 23, 2023 9:44 pm

Michael slipped in a new set of big end shells this morning and on fire-up it's gone all lovely and quiet again! Winning!

The top end is going to be a hot mess of nastiness though..... affraid

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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point.   A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point. Icon_minitime1Wed May 24, 2023 3:16 am


Wow! Got out of gaol on that one!


cheers





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PostSubject: Re: A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point.   A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point. Icon_minitime1Fri May 26, 2023 5:08 pm

This one was pretty far gone! This is one of the exhaust tappets.

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Cam lobe has really taken a pizzling.

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Not really surprising the big ends shouted "Enough"!

Other three tappets were well on the way.

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Andrew
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PostSubject: A and D kit?   A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point. Icon_minitime1Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:52 am

Hi, What is an "A" kit and a "D" kit?

My bike got through 2 sets of tappets and cams before being rollerised. Does that mean the engine is going to have a short life?
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PostSubject: Re: A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point.   A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point. Icon_minitime1Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:26 am

I've covered it extensively in this thread.

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As to whether your engine's life will be reduced? Probably yes. Will it reduce it enough to be relevant to you? Most likely not, but it's really a guessing game.

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GuzziSteve
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PostSubject: Re: A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point.   A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point. Icon_minitime1Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:36 am

Wow, Pete's got Hookers ! I didn't know-- LOL

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Onewhocansee
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PostSubject: Re: A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point.   A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point. Icon_minitime1Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:46 pm

Pete , RH cam chain blade tensioner bolt on my Stelvio has 2 copper washers on it. Is this a mistake? Or normal? , it must have a slight impact on overall chain tension or is it a non issue.

From the front of the bike is the correct engine rotation Clockwise?

Finally getting my 2nd kit supplied after the FKup & missing a lot of precious ace riding weather, Scotland is knocking it out of the park so far this year.
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PostSubject: Re: A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point.   A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point. Icon_minitime1Thu Jun 08, 2023 3:30 pm

An extra washer on the reservoir cover will make no difference at all but it isn't needed. And yes, crank rotation is clockwise when viewed from the front.
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PostSubject: Re: A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point.   A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point. Icon_minitime1Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:19 am

Two more GRiSO's booked in today. cheers

I'll save them all if I can! Laughing

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Onewhocansee
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PostSubject: Re: A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point.   A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point. Icon_minitime1Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:26 pm

Thanks Pete. 👍
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PostSubject: Re: A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point.   A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point. Icon_minitime1Sun Jun 11, 2023 8:58 am

Success! She runs again, went to get a map & now I dont know what type of ABS I have Sad

Does anyone know so I don't have to take the tank off? The manual I have doesnt even mention ABS

Jan 2011 Stelvio.

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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point.   A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point. Icon_minitime1Sun Jun 11, 2023 4:34 pm


I've responded to your email request. Pull the map and send it to me.

I wonder if there's enough room for a borescope?





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PostSubject: Re: A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point.   A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point. Icon_minitime1Sun Jun 11, 2023 11:04 pm

Cool, I've sent what I took off it last year. I had a look when I did the oil pressure sender around that time but I'm very uncertain, might be the ATE one.

I have a borescope & will stick it in various orifices anyways out of curiosity.

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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point.   A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point. Icon_minitime1Sun Jun 11, 2023 11:44 pm


That would be good. If there was a way to identify it without pulling the tank or the map, it might be very useful.


You have Bosch ABS, by the way.





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PostSubject: Re: A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point.   A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point. Icon_minitime1Mon Jun 12, 2023 3:37 am

Cool , thanks dude. All done now Thumbs Up


Edit: Just to add after a test drive , well worth $100. 30mph bellow 3000 rpm was grumpy, now 30mph @ 2000 rpm works. Lot smoother through mid range I'd say.

Not 100% happy with the balance, 1 cyl had more of a flutter on the Morgan carbtune II balancer, swapped lines & it stayed on same cylinder. Bellcrank adjustment was quite vauge & took a while of back n forth to get it, 2 fans running.

idle balance also a bit fickle, found it easier first time I did it tbh.

Couple of times after setting tps to 4.8 (as low as I got it) even not running it creeped to 5.0 without even touching bike (cables have slack in them) It was @ 4.7 when first checked before fiddlin.

Was @ 4.8 when I finished.

Bike hadnt been started in 8 months & the fuel was that age also. Far from ideal  Embarassed

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Jmacs
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PostSubject: Re: A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point.   A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point. Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 10, 2023 3:44 pm

Newbie question. I just picked up a 2014. Pete caught my attention saying his problem child was a 2012 build plated as a 2014. No idea when mine was built or how to find out. How do I identify if my bike might have an issue brewing? Thanks.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point.   A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point. Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 10, 2023 4:03 pm


If it's a Diavolo Nero (black & silver) it has rollers. If any other colour, pop a valve cover off and look.


Edit: just found a pic of yours. You're good.





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PostSubject: Re: A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point.   A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point. Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 10, 2023 4:50 pm

Beetle, thank you very much!!! I appreciate you going the extra mile and looking for a picture of my bike. If I would have known it was that easy, I would have posted it myself.

This is a sign of a great group. Going after it for all!!

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PostSubject: Re: A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point.   A cautionary tale. Just to keep pushing the point. Icon_minitime1

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