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 Polishing a Pearl

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Pete Roper
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kidsmoke
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PostSubject: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 18, 2023 1:49 am

Named Pearl by the original owner, who is a freind. So, Pearl she remains. He actually engraved the name on one of the mirror standoffs.

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Immediately after getting it home, I fell victim to 'startus interruptus'. I didn't believe that was the culprit initially, given the way it was behaving, but ultimately sprung for the MPH relay and voila! Started immediatley, and faultlessly thereafter. Seems I may have messed up dash function a bit, but the important stuff works fine, so I'll worry about that later.

Added to the Farkle list:
Corbin Gunfighter
Hugger
OEM flyscreen
Made some spools for the paddock stand
ONURized - ring and spacers

Next up: I've got a dilemma. I want to re-MAP ASAP. I've got a PC and K&N and a GTM MAP. the fueling is HORRIBLE, and I've got two 'high' mileage weekends in front of me.

I'm several weeks out on a dB killer for my Mistral. If I go with the Mistral Hi pipe/No dBK MAP, can I upgrade a few weeks later? Or, should I just bin the PC, swap to the OEM Airbox and see what she does, and just wait for the dBK to re map?

edit to add: valves and throttle body balance will occur immediately as well.


Last edited by kidsmoke on Thu Aug 10, 2023 3:42 am; edited 2 times in total

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rick pope
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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 18, 2023 2:02 am

You have a resource close by (ratso88). I bet he'd help you with any mapping. Given the scenario you mentioned, you might need to do it twice.

At the very least, I'd ditch the PC and K&N.

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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 18, 2023 3:19 am

rick pope wrote:
You have a resource close by (ratso88).  I bet he'd help you with any mapping.  Given the scenario you mentioned, you might need to do it twice.

At the very least, I'd ditch the PC and K&N.

Getting the work done isn't an issue. And the PC and K&N are goners. That's not in question. Problem is, the current MAP is designed for this set up. Not at all sure what damage I can do pulling that and running without a reMAP.

Question is that since I have these rides BEFORE I have the dB killer (it's paid for and on a slow boat from Itlee) do I wait and run it, or find some middling solution.
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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 18, 2023 4:39 am

dude, get a map from beetle, load it onto your bike end of.

I'm a fussy b__t__d when it comes to fueling. Beetles stuff is just perfect.

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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 18, 2023 4:46 am

Lazlokovacs wrote:
dude, get a map from beetle, load it onto your bike end of.

I'm a fussy b__t__d when it comes to fueling. Beetles stuff is just perfect.


100%. That will happen. Ive got 2 high mileage weeks prior to the dBK coming. It's that gray zone I'm asking about.

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PJPR01
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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:26 am

Do you have access to a stock GRiSO pipe you could put on in the meantime? Then we could provide you with a stock map...at least for the trip, while you wait for the db killer to arrive and then get the new map.

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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:42 am

PJPR01 wrote:
Do you have access to a stock GRiSO pipe you could put on in the meantime?  Then we could provide you with a stock map...at least for the trip, while you wait for the db killer to arrive and then get the new map.

Had not considered this. I suppose it is an option, yes. Add that to the list!
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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:45 am

09 Grisos came with 2230G801 maps....absolute pants.....std Beetle map (or even a more modern factory map like 2230G803) would make massive difference whatever pipe you run !
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 18, 2023 7:56 am

Problem most likely will be that the GTM 'Map' will most likely be a 'turn the lambda off and fling more fuel at it' jobbie. Given that the stock maps are all generally rich to start off with you'll end up with a super rich mess if you remove the PC but since that is probably trying to add yet more fuel it's hard to say what will happen.

If you can I'd suggest just uploading the the last iteration factory map for now, clear the trims and dispose of the PC junk. Then when your dB killer arrives you can upload the correct map and play with the CO.

I'd be more worried by the potential damage caused by the rubbish tuning widgets and 'Map' supplied by someone who doesn't understand how fuelling works than anything else.

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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 18, 2023 10:11 am

I'm very happy with my mistral high pipe, no dbk, and map to match. Not that loud, and runs great.

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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 18, 2023 1:47 pm

That's not a Hi-Pipe.


scratch



Is there some sort of horrid modification to the airbox? Other than the K&N...




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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 18, 2023 6:54 pm

beetle wrote:
That's not a Hi-Pipe.  
scratch

from another thread called "mistral model identifiers"

beetle wrote:

Mistral got back to me. It's an Oval Full Carbon. Identical innards as the Hi-Pipe.

you were laid up in the hospital at the time. undoubtedly in a fog!


beetle wrote:

Is there some sort of horrid modification to the airbox? Other than the K&N...

Nope. They removed the air box lid and filter, and replaced it with the what they call the 'air box ring' and K&N. Simply a few screws to revert.


Last edited by kidsmoke on Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 18, 2023 7:05 pm

sideshowbob wrote:
I'm very happy with my mistral high pipe, no dbk, and map to match. Not that loud, and runs great.

What kind of mileage are you getting? I do love the sound. A few weeks back, some dude here named 'pete' said 'don't be tempted to run it without the dB killer', so i ordered one. One of the few bits from the PO that didn't follow the bike.


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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 18, 2023 7:18 pm

It's had the full 'Treatment'. The airbox lid hinders nothing, the stupid 'Frame' over the top of the filter contributes nothing. Airbox lids are cheap. Buy one, (Probably readily available on the Bay of Fleas.) . Running without the airbox snorkel increases the bottom end a tiny, almost imperceptible, amount but makes a nice intake honk!

The Mistral conical may be almost identical in terms of its internals but it is different in length. It is that extra length that moves the torque point down the rev range. You won't really loose anything much at the top end but the flexibility of the motor can be fully appreciated.

If you want something that 'Feels' like you suddenly hit a 'Power Band' above 6-6,500 RPM? Fit a stupid little shorty pipe. It won't actually make any more power at the top end, (Not so you'd notice in the real world.) but it will gut the bottom end and midrange so when the pipe begins to work it feels like it's more powerful.

This is due to the camming and side draft head design. No doubt voodoo artists will disagree, and I'm not willing to waste my life arguing the point. The laws of physics don't lie.

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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:16 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
Airbox lids are cheap. Buy one,

I've got the original. I've got the filter. Ready to go. Just been waiting on the dBK. The vendor I bought from bundles their Mistral orders for import. Understandable. I'm being patient. (mostly)

Pete Roper wrote:
If you want something that 'Feels' like you suddenly hit a 'Power Band' above 6-6,500 RPM? Fit a stupid little shorty pipe. It won't actually make any more power at the top end, (Not so you'd notice in the real world.) but it will gut the bottom end and midrange so when the pipe begins to work it feels like it's more powerful.

This is due to the camming and side draft head design. No doubt voodoo artists will disagree, and I'm not willing to waste my life arguing the point. The laws of physics don't lie.

Can someone direct me to the pipe? (haven't said that out loud since before Jerry died) OR: Can a MAP be edited to compensate?

This is all great 'end game' council. And I'll heed it. I want this bike dialed in.

Still, in the short term...Thinking I'll just spring for the no dBK MAP, and re-MAP when the other bits are present...
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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:31 pm

There is nothing really *Wrong* with the Termi. It's just not, in my, or I believe Mark's, opinion the optimal option. It tends to be vibratory, it's heavy and it doesn't seem to be ideal for the 8V and since it is exactly the same pipe as recommended for the 1100 that is unsurprising.

Everything is a compromise. Some compromises don't seem to be as good as others.

Don't dismiss it though. Perfect is the enemy of good. Get mapped up for it and you may be more than happy.

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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:17 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
There is nothing really *Wrong* with the Termi. It's just not, in my, or I believe Mark's, opinion the optimal option. It tends to be vibratory, it's heavy and it doesn't seem to be ideal for the 8V and since it is exactly the same pipe as recommended for the 1100 that is unsurprising.

Everything is a compromise. Some compromises don't seem to be as good as others.

Don't dismiss it though. Perfect is the enemy of good. Get mapped up for it and you may be more than  happy.

Ok, Now you've confused me. When you say 'the Termi' do you mean Termignoni? Or are you saying terminus of the exhaust? Maybe I misunderstand your shorthand.

the exhaust I have is the Mistral 'Oval Full Carbon', which they state is identical functionally to their hi-pipe. I understand your point that the Hi-Pipe plumbing adds overall length, affecting the curve modestly.

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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Tue Jul 18, 2023 10:36 pm

kidsmoke wrote:
beetle wrote:
That's not a Hi-Pipe.  
scratch

from another thread called "mistral model identifiers"

beetle wrote:

Mistral got back to me. It's an Oval Full Carbon. Identical innards as the Hi-Pipe.

you were laid up in the hospital at the time. undoubtedly in a fog!



Yeah, but as Pete says, it's the overall length that makes the pipes completely different. The Hi-Pipe +dBk map won't work in that pipe if you put a dB killer in it. To confuse things even more, when you install the dB killer, the Hi-Pipe NodBk map will work best.




Quote :

beetle wrote:

Is there some sort of horrid modification to the airbox? Other than the K&N...

Nope. They removed the air box lid and filter, and replaced it with the what they call the 'air box ring' and K&N. Simply a few screws to revert.



Ah, yes. The moronic air box ring. I fart in its general direction!




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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Wed Jul 19, 2023 5:18 am

Pete Roper wrote:

If you can I'd suggest just uploading the the last iteration factory map for now, clear the trims and dispose of the PC junk. Then when your dB killer arrives you can upload the correct map and play with the CO

This is the approach I'll take, if I can get my hands on that last iteration MAP. I appreciate everybodies feedback.

Next up: An operable DASH with no 'trip' button functionality...

But one thing at a time
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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Wed Jul 19, 2023 7:46 am

My apologies for muddying the waters. I thought your bike had a Termignoni. Mea Culpa.

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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Thu Jul 20, 2023 10:57 pm

Update: Feel like a bit of a fool here. Apparently this bike only had the ECU reflashed, and NO PC. Last night my good man Ratso88 and I set about doing the deed(s)

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Air filter
Valves
Throttle balance
Re-flash with Beetle authorized (and provided, THANKS MARK) late iteration OEM MAP

2 hiccups. First, turns out i didn't have all components of the stock airbox. I have the cover, but not the plastic ring/snorkel/baffle, whatever you want to call it.

This thing

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So I installed the HiFLo brand pleated filter with the aluminum ring for now.

Then, we couldn't find a Power Commander. Unless there is a later iteration very small unit, it ain't there. To be honest, didn't even put eyes on the ECU. Tried to reach the original owner, no success yet. May be that he simply did the mail in reflash route. Since we were balls deep at this point, we proceeded. Valves and throttle body balance both went very smoothly, with all things as they should be in that regard.

Now the problem is I have the SERVICE warning and triangle on the Dash. Showing ZERO fault codes. She's buttoned up and I'll try running it a bit today to see what it feels like. Immediate change is that when started cold, it won't drown under throttle, it simply revs, so the new MAP is showing  someting right there. Need to source that air box component, get the dBK, and re-MAP with a Beetle MAP.

All of this occurred under the watchful eye of the Mighty Scura, in an attempt to garner all the Onsite Aussie juju possible.  we shall prevail, eventually!

Cheers from Ratso

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Pete, your spirit animal says g'day

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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Fri Jul 21, 2023 12:17 am

For sure the SERVICE advisory took me back a bit. As mentioned, no faults showing on Guzzi Diag.
We did not try to access through the dash as the switch used to toggle through the various menues was not functioning last time I tried using it.
It could be the switch or other electrical issues. This GRiSO has given it's share of challenges in that area so far.
The Factory harness has been opened and spliced to add aftermarket turn signals at a minimum.
I am advised that work was done by a competent Helicopter Electrician. The turn signals were functioning at one time but now do not function.
As a rule I do not like to bash other mechanics, unless they obviously deserve a bashing.

A deeper dive will be required in the not too distant future.

Suggested avenues of exploration are welcome.
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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Fri Jul 21, 2023 3:00 am

Regarding the electric: rizoma turn signals installed ‘by a pro’ and worked well. Heated grips were added, straight from the battery. Bike was sold. New owner had the heated grips wired to operate on the switch. By whom? Not him. I don’t know whom, but he’s a checkbook rider so it was supposedly some type of pro. That guy puts 150 miles on the bike in 3 years and sells it to me, turn signals inoperable.

Here’s where it gets fun. When I first rode the bike I would actuate the turn signal switch out of habit, the red triangle would appear along with a lightbulb icon, indicating a light malfunction. OK, says I.  It’s on the list. Then the bike immediately begins to have starting issues. Chasing that issue included cleaning every connection and ground I could find, including going into the dash and removing all terminals etc. the bike got increasingly worse. Throwing codes etc. countless jumps with a lithium pak. New battery….then I bought rhe MPH relay and no more issues.

However: at this point that lightbulb icon and red triangle never showed themselves again! Just gone. Fiddle with the turn signal switch all you like, no blinker and no trouble lights. ALSO, the trip toggle and momentary switch are seemingly useless. Nada. Nothing.

The dash operates well. MPH/odo/temp. When the low fuel light comes on it begins to display miles run on low fuel. So the basics are there.

I think that covers it.
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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Fri Jul 21, 2023 4:50 am

Uggh! I hate hacked looms. They're always a bloody nightmare. Do the Rizoma indicators require a resistor? If so is there one fitted for each flasher? My guess is that the service warning is probably related to that but it's impossible to say from this remove.

As for the non functioning button? You could try the old 'Pull the 30A fuse for thirty seconds and then put it back in' to re-boot the dash. That might fix it but probably won't. Substituting another switchblock would probably be the definitive test or you could work out which wires take the signal and then shunt around them at the loom connector.

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PostSubject: Re: Polishing a Pearl   Polishing a Pearl Icon_minitime1Fri Jul 21, 2023 9:01 am

You didn't say what year? '09?

PC with Auto Tune on mine works great.

MPH wire did not fix my S.I. But a new Bosch starter motor did.

IMHO, keep the bike for a year before you start spending $$$ on it. Then see how you feel. I'm sure you can imagine all the reasons for this.
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