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 The Rabbit Hole

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Transplant
Carlotto
Carlotto
Transplant


Posts : 42
Join date : 2023-08-24

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PostSubject: The Rabbit Hole   The Rabbit Hole Icon_minitime1Thu Sep 21, 2023 7:37 am

The victim? 2012 Norge 1200 8v . 17000 miles.
History is unknown as previous owner...
Title search by me. No accidents or insurance claims .
This will be a peeling of an onion. Layer by mechanical layer. Photos taken today and I will try to post them when asked.
What it looks like is it has been  rewired on the main harness. So far I can only find  the throttle  position  sensor. Intake air on left K&N pod filter. (No airbox at all) both air adjustment screws underside of TBs are screwed tightly binding the outer spring coils. The ambient air sensor for riding seems moved to beneath the gas tank and zip tied to the front brake lines.
 All the major multi pin connectors under the gas tank have been disturbed and then zip tied except for antilock pin connector that is not seated nor zip tied shut.the entire engine and transmission ventilation tubing seems replaced and hooks into a single catch can with yet another Pod filter venting everything to free air beneath the gas tank. Yes it does leave an oil film on itself and it's nearby tubing.
 I do not expect  anyone to dig me  and this awesome bike out of this deep hole. (For me it IS over  the top compared to my former Commando and Kawasaki  Concourse. The rest of my bikes are 58 to 1981. Almost ALL of them basket cases or rollers waiting for a rebuild)
 This Is a tagged and insured bike. Bought by "Love at first sight" Beauty is only 'skin deep '.
I suspect this bike was being sorted for track racing. But it has a chip /loss of the center stand foot piece that could only happen from a left side crash. It would explain the missing original exhaust  and no catalyst  converter? It has a GPR stainless can on it now.
When you see this ongoing rebuild know that I can't throw money. All the body parts require repainting as no primer was used to bond the easily chipped shiny black. (Ie."skin deep")
 Do NOT be sorry or depressed. My first 'Phoenix ' was a massive short curcuit while riding 70 on the interstate. I guess all the people passing me thought the 73 Eldorado  was simply engine smoke. I look forward to going  far and wide with the Norge. The Eldo awaits new rear drive seals.
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beetle
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beetle


Posts : 10047
Join date : 2013-09-30

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PostSubject: Re: The Rabbit Hole   The Rabbit Hole Icon_minitime1Thu Sep 21, 2023 2:23 pm


Either put a match to it and watch it burn, or part it out. Either way, you'll be better off.



Suspect





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Pete Roper
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Pete Roper


Posts : 10420
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 67

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PostSubject: Re: The Rabbit Hole   The Rabbit Hole Icon_minitime1Thu Sep 21, 2023 3:16 pm

I'm afraid I'd have to agree.

If you want me to have a look at the mess you can email the pics to me

motomoda dot roper at gee male dot com

Sounds like it's been 'Tuned' by a vandal so it's probably beyond saving.

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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: The Rabbit Hole   The Rabbit Hole Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 22, 2023 1:19 am


Thanks to Harry Hometune, I would think you're in for, at a minimum, replacing the wiring loom, the airbox (plus boots), and the throttle bodies. All now mostly made out of unobtainium. Used bits on eBay or wreckers (or whatever you call them) is your best bet. I would suspect the engine will probably need a rebuild. Big ends might be OK, but the top end will most likely be toast.


I fart in Harry's general direction.

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Transplant
Carlotto
Carlotto
Transplant


Posts : 42
Join date : 2023-08-24

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PostSubject: Re: The Rabbit Hole   The Rabbit Hole Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:10 am

Well....at this point..what is entirely MISSING..is the stepper motor! I have the 4 pin plug hanging in the air with nothing to plug into. Color code is "G,Ro,Vi,AZ " or "Yellow, Pink, Violet, Sky Blue" . The vacuum tube that feeds into the stepper motor from both TBs is a thin wall plastic that has started to collapse from heat and engine vacuum. (Fish tank tubing?!) Beetle! Step away from those matches! Pete. I can recommend an excellent antacidand a "mothers little helper '
happy pill. I'm on a quest for that stepper motor. No matter what the mapping is right now I think just might be awesome if the idle settles down a bit. I hate slipping clutches to get going. So I will install a new stepper motor and Pete..I already have the other tools. Those convenient little vacuum spigots are going to show me what each TB is doing and what each air bleed does. If that does something nasty to the ECU then plan B. I think (believe) the ECU is intact and wondering where the idle information went? When I tried last time to vacuum balance I had no idea there was this bogus bypass between TBs. It's a Roller top end. The engine is tight and I will do a compression check after I check valve clearances. Can you send me an uploaded wiring diagram for this bike as my upload gets too pixelated to read the labeled wire colors. Thanks for being there to you both. (Matches and flatulence creates a great party joke)

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Transplant
Carlotto
Carlotto
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PostSubject: Re: The Rabbit Hole   The Rabbit Hole Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:16 pm

The fish tank tube expanded etc with heat and no clamp then completely kinked shut on one side and split open. Both. TBs sucking a lot of air where the idle should be. One plug lead definitely split open and sooty plug to witness the misfires. Did I mention the ECU IS ZIP TIED TO FRAME TO MAKE ROOM FOR THE CATCH CAN?
You can't make this stuff up.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: The Rabbit Hole   The Rabbit Hole Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:31 pm

The ECU should be mounted behind the steering head. Read up carefully on how the throttlebodies and ecu work together before you start playing with any adjustments and you will need cables and Guzzidiag before you try and change anything at all. If the bike is running the ECU is fine but there may be other issues as well as the stepper at play.

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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: The Rabbit Hole   The Rabbit Hole Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:12 pm


The ECU doesn't know if the stepper is connected or not. It will be sending the 'move' signal, but as there is no feedback, it doesn't know whether it moved, or its position.

Get ye onto eBay. Ducati use the same stepper. You can buy a set of Ducati throttle bodies including stepper for quite a bit less than what some idiots want for a used Guzzi stepper.


Download the Norge wiring diagram from my Dropbox: LINKY



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beetle
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beetle


Posts : 10047
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PostSubject: Re: The Rabbit Hole   The Rabbit Hole Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:20 pm


Here's a set. Cheap as chips. LINKY



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Nobleswood
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Join date : 2016-12-20

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PostSubject: Re: The Rabbit Hole   The Rabbit Hole Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 22, 2023 7:46 pm

Here's a Youtube video showing what the parts should look like

Throttle bodies

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: The Rabbit Hole   The Rabbit Hole Icon_minitime1Fri Sep 22, 2023 8:02 pm

That's a bit cruel showing him my ugly mug without a viewing warning. Laughing

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Transplant
Carlotto
Carlotto
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Join date : 2023-08-24

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PostSubject: Re: The Rabbit Hole   The Rabbit Hole Icon_minitime1Sat Sep 23, 2023 5:56 am

No bike stuff today. We are competing at a German Sangerfest. I can't yodel but this is the day that would be appreciated. I am making mental notes on pros and cons. My other NGK CAME!
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Transplant
Carlotto
Carlotto
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Posts : 42
Join date : 2023-08-24

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PostSubject: Re: The Rabbit Hole   The Rabbit Hole Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:26 am

Note. NGK NOW' made in China. "K&S".
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Transplant
Carlotto
Carlotto
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PostSubject: Re: The Rabbit Hole   The Rabbit Hole Icon_minitime1Sun Sep 24, 2023 3:21 pm

From 1200 to VROOM! PETE grab your heart medication! I did NOT turn a single TB adjustment this morning. Just adapted my balancer (vacc/electronic) to the spigot)s) used to feed vacuum to the former stepper motor. Stabbed the starter button and saw 1200 rpm. Blipped the throttle and made it cough because this is a cold start and the stepper motor isn't there to compensate the mixture when cold. (77 F). TWIN MAX read a few points strong on right TB and I can tune that later, once I have a baseline mpg , and measurements taken while riding . The right tension lead was cracked down to the metal core. The left side not so deep and works fine. Waits for me to make that lead new as well. Maybe 3 minute warm up on its own idle. Then off to town (70 mph zone) Sweet! About 3800 for 70 in 6th. Both cylinders at all rpm. Filled up with 93 as opposed to 91. Still has crap corn subsistence of 10%. Seventy miles and noticeable improvement in the gauge needle not budging from full until 48 miles. Made one entry blast onto another 70 mph zone and had a couple of misfires 55-6500 but I haven't adjusted anything yet for those rpm and the mapping might be spot on when I do. The catch can for the crankcase should move elsewhere and then I will make a replacement bracket to BOLT the ECU back where it belongs. Zip ties my butt. Hit 104 degrees again today.

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