2007 Norge - ECU 44 code

Hi all

Posting on behalf of my dad, whose 2007 1200 Norge is refusing to start with the above ECU code (44) which refers to "Error relay starter C.C. Vcc"
Figured with my GRiSO out for the count I'd enlist some help here while I heath robinson a means to jack my bike up.

Bike turns on with the key and fuel pump primes. If you let it sit off for a while the service light will go out but will reactivate when you hit the starter.

Bike has had the Startus Interruptus rewire (after some bellend tried it with the incorrect relay!)
Swapped the two relays around to see whether that had gone, no dice.
Changed to a different battery, cleaned contacts, no dice.
Cleaned the ground wires at the top bolt of the starter motor, no dice.

Another post on a Guzzi forum suggested it could be the ECU grounding wire. Given how much an almighty PITA that is going to be to access (all the fairings will have to come off) I'm interested in hearing some other things we can try before we committ to that

Cheers

Yeah..you'll have to go there. Check & clean the ECU ground, plus pull the ECU and check the pins.

I presume you've already checked/cleaned the battery terminals and main ground?

Indeed I have...

Bugger! Fairing off it is

Well, that was a nightmare and a half!

Rare occassion I bless the lord for having such tiny fingers - even with the oil cooler off its mount and coils out of the way you don't get much room to work with.

I was surprised with how easy the ECU plugs came out (and went back in) once the mechanism had been actuated properly. Spent an embarassing amount of time failing to put the first one back in before I realised I'd put the mechanism in the forward (locked) position

Two main pain points were the primary wiring loom "trunk" which makes accessing the right side cable particularly troublesome. you'll gain a lot more room to pull it to the right of the bike (to remove the cable) and push it to the left of the bike (to take out the ECU) with the left cable removed first.

Second point was the sneaky bolt that holds in the left of the ECU. Doesn't appear from the top but it's actually a threaded sleeve you're unbolting, so you'd be best to keep a finger under the ECU to catch the bolt that will drop out when you undo the left side. Right side is just a normal bolt so that's easily done.

Cleaned the contacts for the ECU ground, cleaned the ECU pins themselves, and to asbolutely make sure I resolve this, I've wired a line directly to battery ground from the ECU grounding bolt. Hopefully this should give it as strong of a ground as possible.

Out of steam for one weekend though, so I'll reassmble it next weekend. One unrelated thing I did find though was the optional connector for the electric windscreen. He wants one but wasn't sure if his bike had the wires for it

Right, unfortunate update

Fix didn't work, so I'm in a bit of a daze as to what I can attempt next. thought the cold might have had a hand in it so attached a second battery with jumpers (though the battery in it is only a year old) and still pulls error 44.

Going to whip out the multimeter and check the pinout to see whether our extra line is actually giving a connection to ground. Though if it isn't I couldn't say why.

What would be the next thing to check?

Hmm. Get your meter out and check the voltage at the startup relays. The ECU grounds the coil to close the relay, so check the volts on pin 2 of the relay.

what Mark said,
can also check at the starter solenoid - maybe it has crapped out on you.
if voltage is making it through the start ckt to the solenoid, try tapping on it with a mallet while it is attempting to start. That method used to work for my old VW when I was to poor to fix it in high school!

I think I can hear the relay click one attempt per key cycle. Know it's not startus interruptus since I've run the yellow wire direct to the positive terminal. I'll grab the mallet

Will check also pin 2 on the starter relay. That's the pink/brown one correct?

Correct.

Right, got this checked. Not much of an eletrician myself but I can at least transcribe my readings

Removed the starter relay and stuck the probe into pin 2. took the other probe to negative terminal on battery.

Readings are as follows:

Battery was reading 11.8-11.7V on dash during testing.

Bike key OFF:
V - 0
Ohms - 0.43 (on 2M range)
No continuity

Bike key ON:
V- 3.51
Ohms - OL
No continuity

Bike key ON, starter held:
V - immediately drops to 1 followed by 0 about a second later
Ohms - 0.12 (20k range)
Has continuity

so it looks like I'm losing 9 volts to something?

Right, check the main injection relay. Check volts on the output. If they're good, you may have a bad connection somewhere between it and the startup relay.

Alright, looks like we may have at least found what's going wrong.

Checked pin 87 for the main injection relay. Bang on 12V with the key turned. Ignition relay still showing 3.51V.

So there's obviously something going on there, but I couldn't begin to think where. that line shares quite a few connections too, so I think just running a line to the other relay is out of the question

I wish I could be of more help, but without a schematic I really can't contribute.
sounds like you are going down the right path- take your time and methodically work through the circuit
verifying voltage and connections. hopefully it's a simple loose wire or faulty relay
if you get into the electronics side of it, I am definitely out!

I think I've been a bit of a silly sod when I was testing this actually.

I've just tested pin 1 and 2 of the starter relay - 12V. when I first tested it I pulled the relay and pin 2 gave me 3.51 V, which is still a concern (where are those 3 volts coming from?) but I don't know why I expected to have gotten 12V since with the relay out it wouldn't be completing the circuit!

this does put me back at square one however. My first thought is that there's a dodgy connection to the ECU, since the wire coming out of the injector relay goes to pin 1 on the ECU. I'll need to find a pinout diagram or something so I know where to stick the probe, but I'll need to check what the ECU is receiving from the starter relay. typical that it leads me back there but hey, the pixies of the wire are a fickle bunch

What happens to the 12V on pin 2 of the relay when you hit the start button?

Just going back to basics, you've tried two batteries. Are they 20AH ones or 16's?

OK, took the ECU plug out again. Wiring diagram doesn't say which pin it takes ground from however; it just sort of "comes out of" the ECU. any idea which pin to check?

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RE above questions:

When I hit the starter, Pin 2 dropped to about 11 volts iirc. Assuming this grounding check causes no changes I'll double check afterwards

for the batteries - indeed they are the lesser Motobat type. My GRiSO struggles with them however his norge has always turned over quickly enough with them. Regardless we'll switch to a LIFEPO once this ordeal is over!

The ECU is only grounded by the case connector. No pin is connected to ground.

Hmm, is that so?

The ECU case has a wire coming off from one of the bolts into this connector. I'd been lead to believe that was the grounding wire, and that it fed ground from one of these pins (else what was the point of the wire?

Pin 34 is the shield for the phase sensor, so it *may* be grounded. However, all the startup connections are on the other connector. It will be blue or grey. The brown connector has all the sensor input and ignition stuff.

Checked the ECU ground wire again. Was fine with good connection to ground and low/no resistance. Removed that extra wire I was taking to ground since it's clearly not the issue.


It seems that the ECU doesn't see an issue until you hit the starter now I've plugged it all back in. I suppose at this point it really does just leave the batteries.

I'm not too far from an MOT centre- I'll take both over and have them load tested.

Took both batteries to somewhere for testing
Said they were a little low but couldn't fault them. OK, bought the JMT YTX20CH-FP lithium battery to see if that fixes it

Nothing. Dash shows 12.1V but still get the 44 ECU error when pressing the starter. I'm stumped.

Man - I feel your pain.
wish I had a silver bullet for this. Hopefully some of the others will help get to the bottom of this

Does the starter motor spin if you hot wire it ?

Indeed. Took a wire to the starter and spun immediately. Hoped that it had been stuck, but button still won't start it.