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keenerkeen07
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:30 pm

Pete i believe its the bolts themselves, they are not graded ..no spec....you could torque them dead on and IF they lose their ability to hold torque /stretch its a crap shoot.. my new ones are safety wired ..with a bit of red lock tight...

I sell bolts among other industrial supply's... when a bolt is not marked as in 8.8 or 10.9 grade for example it means they are non spec so they can fail to hold to recommended  torque....and that does not mean that more torque is better (could be worst) they could snap off Shocked
Guzzi needs to supply graded bolts IMO


Last edited by keenerkeen07 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:54 pm

That boy has no luck at all! Shocked







I'm puttin graded ones on mine soonest.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:58 pm

He has no luck with me! Remember I fucked the cam chain tensioner on his old bike!

Incidentally we both listened to my shitheap today and it sounds very, very much like his did. I reckon I've done a big end too as the tappets went west. Fuckit! I'll run it for a thousand km and see what the oil smells like but it's not looking peachy...... Sad

Pete
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:35 pm

keenerkeen07 wrote:
Pete i believe its the bolts themselves, they are not graded ..no spec....you could torque them dead on and IF they lose their ability to hold torque /stretch its a crap shoot.. my new ones are safety wired ..with a bit of red lock tight...

I sell bolts among other industrial supply's... when a bolt is not marked as in 8.8 or 10.9 grade for example it means they are non spec so they can fail to hold to recommended  torque....and that does not mean that more torque is better (could be worst) they could snap off Shocked
Guzzi needs to supply graded bolts IMO

I can remember you posting that before and I was skeptical. Needless to say I've revised my opinion on that one. I think a trip to Specialty Fasteners on Monday is on the cards!

Pete
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Ralf z
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:47 am

Marks bike is possessed..

And I'm going to check my wheel bolts tomorrow.
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little750
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:39 am

Just checked mine and all good. I don't think they have ever been changed in 20000 miles. I always clean and torque them when a new tyre goes in then check about 100 miles after then occasionally then before you know its new tyre time again.
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keenerkeen07
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:50 am

Pete Roper wrote:
keenerkeen07 wrote:
Pete i believe its the bolts themselves, they are not graded ..no spec....you could torque them dead on and IF they lose their ability to hold torque /stretch its a crap shoot.. my new ones are safety wired ..with a bit of red lock tight...

I sell bolts among other industrial supply's... when a bolt is not marked as in 8.8 or 10.9 grade for example it means they are non spec so they can fail to hold to recommended  torque....and that does not mean that more torque is better (could be worst) they could snap off Shocked
Guzzi needs to supply graded bolts IMO

I can remember you posting that before and I was skeptical. Needless to say I've revised my opinion on that one. I think a trip to Specialty Fasteners on Monday is on the cards!

Pete



i feel much better about the bolts re the safety wire , easy to do and confidence has returned as to the bike overall.
8.8 grade should be fine ,but if you find 10.9 go for it..

Keener
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:17 pm

10.9's and suitable washers purchased.
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tocino
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:07 am

What are the dimensions / thread pitch on these bolts? I'm thinking it'd be good to have them on hand for when I replace the rear tire.
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AOAM
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:34 pm

Yes. I live far away from any brick and mortar. If you can recommend an online purchase site that would be great.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:22 pm

M12, I'll have to measure the length.

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mark111
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:52 am

As Pete said M12 (12mm)
Thread pitch is the standard 1.75.
Make sure they are not to long or they will bottom in the mounting flange,
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opc
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:26 am

According to the spare parts catalog for model year 2007-2013, they are M12x65. For both forged and wire spoke wheels.


Last edited by opc on Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:28 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : To clarify wheel type application)
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tocino
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:49 am

McMaster-Carr has: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

but "Thread length may vary from 36mm to fully threaded"

12.9 hardness
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pauldaytona
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:19 pm

I'm not shure if this is a place to put stronger bolts in. They have less stretch. And maybe that is needed to keep em tight.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:30 pm

Maybe the stretch is what is loosening them?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:16 pm

Nah. Not sure what is amusing it but you don't want to go too hard. 10.9 should be fine.

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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:24 pm

I used 12.9's on my wheel conversion, but also designed the right hub face with clearance holes that fit over the bolt heads. All four would have to unwind at the same rate/distance.
Always torqued to 110/Nm. No issues so far.

Here you can see the bolt heads sitting in the hub.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:13 pm

Given their relative low cost, perhaps replacing them every 2nd tyre change would give peace of mind?
I pull the wheels off myself for tyre changes. I'm on my 3rd set of tyres, but the wheel has been off for new shock, swing arm grease, bevel box leak etc. I always torque to specs.

The 100 odd horses wouldn't offer enough shear force, but repeated tightening may stress them eventually. I've never found one loose.

We replace the 12mm cap screws that attach the X-ray tubes to CT's every time we replace one. However, the shear force is oblique to the screws, and they are subject to 15 G's.

Shrug.
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Charlie J
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:38 pm

From the first time I took the back wheel off I put a small amount of Nickel Neva Seize on the threads and the taper of the washers making sure there is no excess. Torque the bolts on three stages, 50,90 and110 Nm, in a diagonal pattern. I have never found one loose. However I shall buy another set and put paint marks on the bolts and wheel.I discussed this issue with our Engineer at work and he suggested using medium strengt Loctite screw lock instead of neva seize.
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opc
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:33 pm

Never-seez requires a reduction to the torque by up to 30% depending on the Never-seez formulation. A 110Nm spec means you should only torque to 77Nm. See page 3 of this thread for pictures that illustrate why.
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Charlie J
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:24 pm

Thanx for that. New bolts have been ordered. Note to self...read ALL the posts before you comment...
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opc
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:59 am

Thumbs Up
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keenerkeen07
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:53 pm

check your bolts , and ride safe
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keenerkeen07
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PostSubject: Re: rear wheel came off   Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:33 am

keenerkeen07 wrote:
check your bolts , and ride safe

just a bump
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