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 Tappet inspection. How long does it take?

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Tappet inspection. How long does it take?   Tappet inspection. How long does it take? Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:02 pm

I didn't know whether to put this in the technical section or here but here seems more sensible.

This is just a heads up as John Burgess, who may or may not be a member here, recently had his flat tappets inspected by his local dealer in, I believe, So.Cal somewhere. After the job was completed he was told that his tappets were fine and he had nothing to worry about. That in and of itself is a fine, though in my opinion unlikely, outcome give my experience since I started inspecting every Flattie I get through the shop.

What is considerably more worrying is that he was quoted eight hours and billed for ten for the inspection! Shocked now as Beetle and Mr Bob can attest doing a complete 'C' kit install is about eight or so hours work and that involves pulling off the cylinder heads, exhausts etc. and removing the inlet valves for shimming not to mention dropping the sump for a good looksee if it's thought to be needed.

With a GRiSO pulling both camboxes to inspect them is at the most a two and a half hour job. I can pull the left one in about 25 minutes! You don't even have to take the tank off FFS!

Ten hours is arrant stupidity. The thing that really worries me is have the tappets really been looked at or did they just pull the rocker covers, look for anything unusual, (You can't see the feet of the tappets without pulling the cambox.) and maybe check the clearances, declared it good and pulled a huge number of hours out of their arse to slug the customer with.

I think I need to do a photoessay on how to pull the camboxes so people can check for themselves. It really is very simple and as I said, takes little time. Even for a novice you could do it a morning!

Pete


Last edited by Pete Roper on Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Tappet inspection. How long does it take?   Tappet inspection. How long does it take? Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:14 pm

I saw that thread. I was furious when I read that. The ignorance is astounding. I don't know John from a bar of soap, but the lackadaisical attitude concerns me. When his tappets go tits-up and the crank eats itself, no doubt there will be hysterical screeching and finger pointing. His mechanic is either a charlatan or a dumbarse. God's Teeth!
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rboe
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PostSubject: Re: Tappet inspection. How long does it take?   Tappet inspection. How long does it take? Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:40 pm

My mechanic charged me five hours for the inspection (and his right hand man said it took longer - only billed me for five). Since he thought it was fine he buttoned it back up. Luckily had the forums as a resource, and he had taken pictures, so submitting to Piaggio was duck soup.

But when we did the conversion I think he charged me for four hours only (bill was much less). I was a bit put out that I had to pay twice but I think he treated me good for the whole thing.

I'm considering trading it in at some point (or selling outright) and wanted the service on record with him - seeing as he was only 90 miles away. Do my part to keep him in business too.

I suspect even I could have done it in less than ten hours. Just bad memories from dealing with cams and timing belts/chains; just didn't want to deal with that.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Tappet inspection. How long does it take?   Tappet inspection. How long does it take? Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:58 pm

Which is fine, you shouldn't have to if you don't want to. That is completely different though from just, at best, making stuff up and at worst being genuinely dishonest!

I've got another deader coming in tomorrow morning. I might use that to do the photoessay on with a clock running! Very Happy.

Pete
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Grisonut
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PostSubject: Re: Tappet inspection. How long does it take?   Tappet inspection. How long does it take? Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:10 pm

20 minutes max, is what it takes me to do the valve adjustments.
And that's if I have to adjust everyone of them, which is rarely the case after the first run in.
I am not a pro but I use power tools to take the body work and valve covers off...

So considering my timing, how can they justify 9+ hours to inspect the tappets??
I call bullshit on this one
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rboe
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PostSubject: Re: Tappet inspection. How long does it take?   Tappet inspection. How long does it take? Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:11 pm

My theory; the customer paid the tech to go to school, on the customers bike.
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LBC Tenni
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PostSubject: Re: Tappet inspection. How long does it take?   Tappet inspection. How long does it take? Icon_minitime1Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:55 pm

This is the primary reason I'd like to force a recall, aside from the fact I don't like getting fucked by multinational corporations. A recall would force these dealer service dipshits to educate themselves. I called every dealer in So Cal to ask about the roller conversion. GP was the only one even aware of the issue. But they told me the inspection alone would be $800. I just laughed and hung up. I have been going to Pro-Italia for service. When they did the 6k, the service advisor said he was aware of the tappet issue and we should keep an eye on it. But when I stopped by recently to ask about an inspection with photos, I was told that service advisor no longer works there. They just looked at me like my hair was on fire and said they never heard of it. They probably sell 100 Ducatis for every Guzzi, so I suppose it shouldn't surprise me. I'm determined to rollerise my Tenni and keep it, but the dealer service situation here is beyond ridiculous.
Pete, a photo essay would be very helpful and much appreciated! I never loved a bike enough to become a real mechanic, but this lovely and sublime POS is going to force my hand. Cursed Italians!
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rboe
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PostSubject: Re: Tappet inspection. How long does it take?   Tappet inspection. How long does it take? Icon_minitime1Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:10 pm

Back in the day when I worked at a Honda/Suzuki dealership (and it was true for Kawasaki and I assume Yamaha) work was done and billed via the Flat Rate book. If the mechanic was learning he "lost" money. If he was very good, he made money.

I get the feeling, with Moto Guzzi and maybe Piaggio, this is no longer the case. Yes? No?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Tappet inspection. How long does it take?   Tappet inspection. How long does it take? Icon_minitime1Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:02 pm

Well, Mark is bringing his vid camera up tomorrow. If we get time, which we should be able to do easily as it's such a short job, we'll make a suitably stupid Christmas vid of pulling off a cambox.

Pete
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: Tappet inspection. How long does it take?   Tappet inspection. How long does it take? Icon_minitime1Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:52 pm

I can see it now ....................... the Bungendore brigade.

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Lenz9753
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PostSubject: Re: Tappet inspection. How long does it take?   Tappet inspection. How long does it take? Icon_minitime1Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:42 am

A "how to" tutorial with video on pulling left and right cambox plus inspection close ups would be bloody marvellous Mr Roper.

Ghezzi you're a very sick man .....
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Tappet inspection. How long does it take?   Tappet inspection. How long does it take? Icon_minitime1Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:48 am

You haven't seen the video of me grooming my pelt......
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Lenz9753
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PostSubject: Re: Tappet inspection. How long does it take?   Tappet inspection. How long does it take? Icon_minitime1Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:03 am

Pete Roper wrote:
You haven't seen the video of me grooming my pelt......

Hmmm ..... lives in the colder, less populated regions , has a reportedly large dangerous creature with flaring nostrils and sabre tongue for a bed companion, grows a prolific layer of fur (better class of body hair) and has been known to eviscerate "no respect" hipsters riding Ducati Scramblers .......

Fuck me - when the moon is right Young Mr Roper is actually a blood relative of the much feared Yowie - his mother got a little "confused" one night by a large hairy passing stranger while "Dad" was actually still at the Pub .....
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Tappet inspection. How long does it take?   Tappet inspection. How long does it take? Icon_minitime1Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:14 am

Birth mother was an Australian nurse. As far as I can find out genetic father was a US airman based in East Anglia in the UK in 1956. I was most likely the product of a quick knee trembler behind a pub near Norwich in early June 1956 Very Happy.

My adoptive parents, while weird, did everything they could to make me a good person. I never met their 'Goals' as far as achievement is concerned but I don't feel I've let the side down too badly in the 'Humanity' stakes.

They never approved of me marrying an Australian Guttersnipe though. Well, Dad did but Mum never got over it.....Very Happy

Pete
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Lenz9753
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PostSubject: Re: Tappet inspection. How long does it take?   Tappet inspection. How long does it take? Icon_minitime1Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:23 am

Pete Roper wrote:
Birth mother was an Australian nurse. As far as I can find out genetic father was a US airman based in East Anglia in the UK in 1956. I was most likely the product of a quick knee trembler behind a pub near Norwich in early June 1956 Very Happy.

My adoptive parents, while weird, did everything they could to make me a good person. I never met their 'Goals' as far as achievement is concerned but I don't feel I've let the side down too badly in the 'Humanity' stakes.

They never approved of me marrying an Australian Guttersnipe though. Well, Dad did but Mum never got over it.....Very Happy

Pete

Ah Shit Pete I thought I'd opened the door for a good line of serious story telling but instead you've shared some sensitive personal history. Not a fucking thing we can do about the past Mate or about other people's expectations of us - all we can do is learn from it.

I think Socrates is credited with saying "Spend all of your energy building the NEW and not fighting the OLD". Pretty soon the OLD becomes irrelevant and the NEW becomes the PRESENT.

My darkest moments are like thick tarry bubbles of malice and unpleasantness from the past hitting the surface - they're unpredictable when and how they're triggered - thankfully they dissipate
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LBC Tenni
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PostSubject: Re: Tappet inspection. How long does it take?   Tappet inspection. How long does it take? Icon_minitime1Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:58 pm

Pete, I saw this news story about an Australian nurse and an American airman and thought of you. I realize the timing is off, but a fun coincidence just the same.

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