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Il Griso
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PostSubject: EICMA 2017   Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:10 pm

Hi everyone,

after a year of intensive GRiSO riding, temperatures have decreased now.
More time to discuss in the forum now.

EICMA is opening their doors start of November in Milano.
What is the coffee machine taking about rumours for MY18 in Australia, new Zeeland and US?

Did you hear anything in oversea?
In Europe the romours are quite uninformative?

New engine?
New GRiSO?

Ralf
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Stu400
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:45 pm

I heard rumours about a new engine partially water cooled (like the BMW), won't be ready until 2019.
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Il Griso
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:48 pm

Hi Stu,

could be realistic due to the EU 5a requirements for 2020.
Any infos about displacement and/or power?

Ralf
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Stu400
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:57 pm

No, no more info. I'd like to see something a little more radical though. I know a few years ago they experimented with more conductive metals to control cooling to take heat away from the heads.
How about a return to 1000cc ish and a low volume supercharger?

To be honest as long as it's beautiful i'm probably in.
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motor-timothy
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:54 pm

Fingers crossed for a GRiSO with ABS. With how small they have become (less than 700 gram) the "there is no room" excuse no longer holds. Hell if they only change the standard battery to a lithium one they should have enough space Laughing
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:08 pm

Sadly GRiSO is dead and won't be coming back.

Pete
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:13 pm

V9 Series gets central plug and probably an extra four valves.

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Be still my beating heart!

If they hi-cam it I'll get interested. If it remains OHV they can stick it up their collective arses.

Pete
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:55 am

I talk to my coffee machine all the time, but it tells me nothin'.
Just hisses and spits, sometimes I even get scalded.

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Il Griso
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:33 pm

When MG really touches the V9 engine, hopefully they will apply state of the art thermodynamic development work on it to get a power output of at least 90 hp. 850 cc resulting in 55 hp ( only 3 horses more then the V7) is not what I would like to buy!

Central spark, four valves, compression ratio of 11:1 and rated speed at 8.000 rpm are some of the ingredients, Guzzi should work on. BMW shows, that this works without partial cooling (R9T Ninette).

I like the statement of Stu regarding charged engines. This would enable MG get a modular approach.
90hp in a natural aspirated version, 120/140hp by applying a mechanical charger varying the boost pressure as Kawa does.

Is Moto Guzzi going back to an old fashioned company slowing down the live by 50 hp bikes, or will Guzzi make a big step into the future, developing new technologies.

I think the main problem for Guzzi is quit similar to Harley: Most customers don't buy bikes with new technology (e. g. V-Rod designed by Porsche - the mega flop).

EICMA is opening the doors for journalists on Nov. 7th and we will see, how lion-hearted the Guzzi management is.

I hope, they do not present a Li-Ion battery for the GRiSO - thats what I did on day 1.

Best regards to down-under, Brexit-land and Donald-land,

Ralf

PS: Today was a wonderful sunny and warm late summer day (I think you name it indian summer)
and I enjoyed a long trip in the Austrian lake district with my GRiSO.

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Il Griso
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:19 pm

I just found some news from an Italian economy magazine:

Moto Guzzi will present a new V8 850 ccm engine at EICMA 2017 in November.

V7: 52hp
V9: 55hp

Conclusion for V8: 53,5 hp ????

Hopefully a bad joke![You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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Il Griso
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:23 pm

My Italian is not the best, but 80/90 cavalli could mean hp, which looks much better than my first assumption.

Let's see how it looks like!
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:38 pm

It has nothing to do with 'Guzzi'. Unfortunately 'Guzzi' as it was no longer exists. It is just another brand name owned by Piaggio and they have decided that it is going to be their 'Lifestyle' brand aimed at the 'Fat Harley' and 'Hipster' demographic.

All this talk of "90hp" from a smallblock is arrant nonsense. The smallblock crankcase was originally designed for the V35 with a provision for the engine to be enlarged through bore and stroke changes to the 500cc-V50. The V50 produced what? 30hp on a good day? How do people think that something designed for 'X' amount of work/loading is going to behave and perform when asked to handle '3X' work? It's not is the answer, it's going to fail. Likewise to get that sort of power you are going to need increased crank and piston speeds and for that you are going to need stronger, larger, heavier, connecting rods. These in turn will require a stronger crank and none of this crap is going to fit inside the ancient crypt of a crankcase that is the basis of the smallblock!

It's the same sort of stupidity as those hideous photoshop fantasies that plonker Bezzi, (Or whatever his name is?) insists on ejaculating onto bikesif or whatever that website is called where nongs can ooooh and aaahhh over irrelevant fantasies with no foundation in reality!

If they are going to build something new and exciting it is going to have to be a clean sheet design and I don't honestly believe that Piaggio are interested enough in Guzzi to consider investing in that. Given that the management/publicity drone at the last press conference about the demise of the Stelvio he, their 'Spokesperson' on Guzzi was so ignorant of the bike he was discussing he claimed it had been made in both 2 and 4 valve per cylinder forms! I mean? This is their 'Brand Expert' discussing a product that has just gone out of production and is still on shop floors and he doesn't even know a simple detail like how many bloody valves it has! They may well claim or hint at all sorts of wonderful things 'Under development' but I'll believe it when I see it because I wouldn't believe one word that comes out of these lying sacks of shit's mouths!

What would I like to see? Well, using the Guzzi name on a series of 'Upmarket' scooters and investing the profits back into R&D for a genuinely NEW range of motorbikes covering the same demographics as the CARC series did in their prime would be a start! I'd also like to see alternative fuels tried and the technology developed. A small, forcibly aspirated, HSD would be a wonderful thing for a tourer and it would be great to see Guzzi used as a development platform for ground breaking electric bikes. Will it happen? Will it buggery! We'll just see more of the same. Fat, unimaginative 'Cruisers' and mobile phone holders for hipsters.

It breaks my heart.

Pete
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motor-timothy
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:42 pm

Il GRiSO wrote:
My Italian is not the best, but 80/90 cavalli could mean hp, which looks much better than my first assumption.

Let's see how it looks like!

It says "This new engine should push roughly 80/90 horsepower so is more powerful and normally meant for other types --of motorcyle?--."
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Il Griso
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:00 pm

Since Moto Guzzi was bought by Aprilia and both together taken over by the Piaggio group, Guzzi has no own R&D engine department any more. This is captured by Aprilia and they know, how to design and develop good and powerful engines.

A 90 hp powerblock in a smallblock will not work as pete explained and I agree fully to that.
And I can share the approach of Pete to develop a new engine platform using a mechanical driven charger.

V2, 900cc, boost pressure 0,8-1 bar at 100.000 rpm, power range 130hp, low weight, small dimension

Some name it downsizing.

Good night for today,
Ralf
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bioman
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:37 am

Il GRiSO wrote:
Since Moto Guzzi was bought by Aprilia and both together taken over by the Piaggio group, Guzzi has no own R&D engine department any more. This is captured by Aprilia and they know, how to design and develop good and powerful engines.

According to this article, Piaggio is killing Aprilia - not Guzzi:  [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]






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sideshowbob
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:29 am

Sebastian-land? Looks like a damn good start!
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:48 am

All rumours and hearsay, at this stage. Guesstimating is another expression. We will have to wait (no, don't wait up) until EICMA and see if any of this guff actually gets shown.

Watch out for what the marketing department says, reality is quite often altogether different.
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pauldaytona
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:14 am

Lets see what they did. But what is needed is a brand new design, so the engine weighs half from what we have now. But since this evolutionary design since 30 years, they always do one half, that has to fit to the old gearbox or engine. It also makes that any new engine fits in any tonti.
A lighter engine can give lighter bikes. look at what KTM does, like the 990 und 200 kg, 115 hp it has, is enough.
Or the all new coming 790 engine:

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LBC Tenni
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:22 pm

I tip my hat to KTM for their engine innovation. If they'd make it with shaft drive and not looking like an insect, I'd tip my wallet as well.
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Il Griso
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:21 pm

My coffee-machine spoke to me this morning:

What will happen, if you leave a GRiSO and a Stelvio together in the garage...

...Italien sex, resulting maybe in a 940 baby!

It lookes like mother Stelvio, only the dominant exhaust is from father's side.

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Conclusion: never leave them alone over night!
Ralf
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JohnA
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:29 pm

I've read that the GRiSO will continue to be made for the US market in 2018. It appears to be a clone of my 2014 black devil.
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Il Griso
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:43 pm

Yes, this seems to be true, I also read it.
MG stopped the 1200 series mainly due to Euro 4 requirements, which are much more severe then US EPA/Carb standards.

In Europe, 2020 Euro 5a will come into force and for 2024 Euro 5b with the complete OBD 2 program incl. catalyst monitoring, which could be delayed from Euro 5a. Also more stringend sound provisions are under discussion for Euro 5b.

Let's see, how Guzzis will look like at this time.
I will enjoy my life with my MY 15 GRiSO which is Euro 3 compliant, thus not equipped with an electronic juggernout! Smile
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Pisano
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:44 pm

Where did you read about the 2018 GRiSO?
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Il Griso
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:57 am

It's there:

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: EICMA 2017   Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:20 am

I see nothing about any *New* models? scratch
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