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 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.

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Pete Roper
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140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Empty
PostSubject: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Tue May 08, 2018 9:15 pm

What a load of cock!

Here are a few pics that should go some way to explaining why theses fantasists are blowing smoke out of their arses!

Here are a couple of pics of the inlet manifold gaskets. They match the profile and SA of the ports. The larger one is off the twin throttle body 1200 the significantly smaller one is from the 1400.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] by -convertpervert-

Overlaid, the 1200 over the 1400.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] by -convertpervert-

Then the ports in the heads themselves, you can�t see the actual flow distribution differences from these pics unfortunately .

1400.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] by -convertpervert-

1200

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] by -convertpervert-

Different injectors on the 1400�s as well but that won�t affect the fact that while the 1400 heads may suffer less charge transition issues they are designed for max cylinder fill at lower RPM at the expense of better, if wasteful, performance higher in the rev range.

Regardless, this motor, (The 1400.) won�t make anywhere near 140HP in a month of rotten Sundays!

Pete
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Oz1200Guzzi
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140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Tue May 08, 2018 9:18 pm

Wot if there was a "wet dream" involved?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Tue May 08, 2018 9:34 pm

What if there was someone who is completely clueless but a very shrewd carnival barker involved?

Oh, and unicorns! Unicorns always help!

Pete
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Tue May 08, 2018 10:58 pm

Sorted then!
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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Tue May 08, 2018 11:48 pm

Find me some Unicorns. I'll harvest their souls and use Guzzidiag to inject them into the ECU Twisted Evil
Yes , Ron's back on the sauce drunken
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Wed May 09, 2018 1:31 am

140HP, weak as piss.
FrankenGhezzi will have minimum of 160RWHP.
Bwaaahhaaahaaaa!
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sideshowbob
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Wed May 09, 2018 8:53 am

Has to be the special unicorns that blow rainbows out their arse.
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DeepSpace
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Wed May 09, 2018 9:23 am

What about mapping and or valves cams, size of the valves maybe?

How much HP do you think it has then? Bit strange that you have 200cc more but no gain right?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Wed May 09, 2018 10:33 am

Nope. Not if you look at the entire motor holistically.
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pauldaytona
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Wed May 09, 2018 3:17 pm

exhaust side same smaller channels?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Wed May 09, 2018 3:37 pm

Exhaust side similar if not identical. I’ll take some pics for you next time I’m near them.

Petr
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Wed May 09, 2018 5:50 pm

Looks like the Cali heads could do with some breathing work. Maybe better to put 1200 heads on them and see that difference first. Still after that you might get 105, 110, 115, nah nowhere near 140.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Wed May 09, 2018 8:17 pm

Its so much more than that Tony. I think I'll have to write a little rant explaining exactly WHY i know these sorts of figures are bullshit. Once again its the fact that you have to have a basic understanding of the laws of physics before anything else. Then you have to get on with understanding the limitations of what we have to play with with the Guzzi 8V engine.

All of the motors that are making these sorts of big-bang power figures are so very, very different to the Guzzi. Multi cylinder, downdraft induction, super-lightweight DOHC, radically timed and much, much more sophisticatedly controlled than our engine which is essentially still an overgrown ditch pump.

I'll probably write something as a word document and then just paste it here, but in a lot of ways I don't think its worth bothering with. Those who want to believe in a 140HP 8V will do so because that's what they want and there will always be people willing to exploit that tendency. For those who understand they already know why such claims can't hold water.

Pete
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Wed May 09, 2018 11:49 pm

So Pete, given thr design limitatios of the 8v are we at maximum pleasure at the moment with 110 claimed and 100 atbw?
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kiwi dave
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Thu May 10, 2018 2:20 pm

GRiSO is 108-110 hp claimed, the Cali 1400 only 95 hp. But the Cali 1400 has 89 lbs/ft max torque (@ 2750 rpm and essentially flat across the rev range), whereas the GRiSO only has maximum torque of 81 lbs/ft (109.8 Nm), and @ 6000 rpm, which is not an engine speed I want to run around on continuously.

Which is more preferable? I'll take the larger toque of the Cali 1400 (albeit on a heavier bike).

I know I'm likely to score a lot flak for this.


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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Thu May 10, 2018 2:46 pm

The reality is somewhat different. A 1400 Cali makes 83 RWHP & 80 ft-lbs on a good day. The torque curve is nice and flat, however. A stock GRiSO has a torque curve like the silhouette of the Swiss Alps.

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Thu May 10, 2018 3:18 pm

You won’t score flack Dave but your figures aren’t accurate.

Every 1200 I’ve ever had on the dyno in stock trim has made 94-96 at the rear wheel and the torque curve was a mess. Mark’s figures for the Cali? I’m assuming came from a trustworthy source. I haven’t had one on the dyno yet.

All the factory numbers are sourced from the dynamometer of the blazing underpants. They are essentially a guide as to who can tell the biggest lies at Pontadera!Very Happy

Pete
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Thu May 10, 2018 4:24 pm

I remember Al's (The Saint) GRiSO dyno sheet ................ HP figures escape me but the torque curve was almost dead flat. From 78 to 80 and back to 78 ft/lbs, from 3,000 to 8,000 rpm.
Beetled, Agostini high pipe etc.

I know dyno's can be made to lie, but this was measured by Brisbane's premier dyno shop.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Thu May 10, 2018 5:02 pm

I did say "stock" GRiSO.


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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Thu May 10, 2018 5:09 pm

The GRiSO 14 made 98 ish I seem to remember, that is with stock airbox, filter etc and Arrow headers/mid pipe and Mistral Hi-Pipe with dB killer in. With a bit more work I agree with Mark that we'll get a genuine 100 at the rear wheel. Thats not the point though. It's the torque 'Flat' that makes it so enjoyable and that got a big boost.

I suggest that anyone who thinks that 140 is achievable on an engine that in best tuned stock trim produces 96 go and do some reading, on Physics and Thermodynamics and then come back and explain how its possible without resorting to unicorn farts. Oh, you'll need a bit of chemistry too.

Pete
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Thu May 10, 2018 5:53 pm

I think the chemistry involved to get 140 HP is frowned upon by the authorities.


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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Thu May 10, 2018 6:04 pm

Giving babies brain damage tends to be frowned upon. What a bunch of killjoys!
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sideshowbob
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Thu May 10, 2018 7:04 pm

Forced induction could do it, but the support systems to make it work would be tricky and expensive.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Thu May 10, 2018 7:25 pm

If it was possible, and I’d still be skeptical, it would be a raggedy edge, unreliable grenade!
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: 140 HP out of a Cali 1400.   140 HP out of a Cali 1400. Icon_minitime1Thu May 10, 2018 7:54 pm

beetle wrote:
I did say "stock" GRiSO.



Mark, my "saw it with my own eyes" was testament to your mapping etc.
If all the electrickery can be believed, then a flat 80ft/lbs is achievable with a 1200 8V.

My FrankenGhezzi 165+ does rely upon some thievery and plagiarism, disguised with smoke and mirrors and a little skullduggery thrown in.
Bring to the boil and simmer for a few months ..................... albino  geek
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