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davem
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PostSubject: Fuel pipe misery   Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:13 pm

I have had a warning light come up on the G1100 with a error code for the oil pressure sensor so decided to have a look at the offending item.

I tried to get the tank off and discovered the fuel connector is broken, not the red elbow but the fuel pipe connector and it would not part company with the elbow.
To get the tank off I had to unscrew the fuel injectors and remove the tank with the fuel lines and injectors attached .
To add to the misery one of the fuel lines split and is now leaking.

So I need to replace the fuel lines and somehow get the connector off the elbow or failing that to replace the elbow and the fuel lines.

After that the oil pressure sensor probably needs replacing but looks a bitch to get at even with the tank off.

Any advice on the way forward would be much appreciated.


Last edited by davem on Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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kiwi dave
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:24 pm

Run the engine, and then disconnect the wires to the tank, allowing the motor to splutter to a stop. This reduces the pressure in the fuel line and makes disconnecting easier.

Then while holding your mouth is a special secret gape, push the hose towards the red elbow, while at the same pull the collet away. It will take several attempts.

Before you reconnect, apply a little vaseline or dielectric grease to the elbow to make it a bit easier the next time.

Never done a GRiSO oil sensor, but replaced then on a Breva 1100 many times. I found it easier to approach from the left hand side, alfter removing the LH header pipe. Then after removing the crank positioning sensor, a 22mm flat ring spanner could be used to undo the oil pressure sensor, one tiny increment at a time.

As the GRiSO has different header pipes, they might not have to be removed. But if you remove both, then the situation should be the same. Tank can stay on.
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MrButter
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:55 pm

Hey

vote up on the above - greasy QR joint is the go.

Had same issue - tempory workaround was to fit an additional quick release connector , but careful it doesnt foul the TB's etc of course - not much room under there (depends where the split is)

I found fitting injectors and (flexible rubber) fuel lines from a Breva is much easier to deal with - sourced on fleabay from US....

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davem
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:30 pm

Thanks so far.

I have managed to get the fuel line off the elbow.

The fuel line is kinked and split and the connecting collar broken so the whole thing needs replacing.


A few more questions folks.

1/ How are the injectors  removed from the fuel line. Do they just pull off.

2/ The rubber pipes connected to the two nipples at the rear of the tank are split. Is this just a breather?

3/ Does the battery tray go on before or after  the tank? (can't remember how it came off, doh).

4/ The Breva line seems like a good option is it a straight swap?

Thanks again.
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:16 pm

Can only answer the first one - undo screw, pull off but it is a neat fit and make sure you pull straight, might require some effort - it's an o-ring seal. DO NOT USE A SCREWDRIVER to lever it off.
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MrButter
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:52 pm

Hi Dave

I bought a set of QR pliers to use on the various annoying connectors I find on cars these days. They seem to make it easier. Could be my imagination.  

1/ I suppose you could try replacing the fuel pipes alone, but its a high pressure line - and theres no clamp - I guessed heat / press fit, someone feel free to correct me !  Better to just replace after the T connector and leave the injectors maybe.

I got away with a temporary workaround of heating the pipe slightly and press fitting a plastic inline QR connector... however I wouldnt recommend it unless you can be sure it wont be crushed or foul anything - (explosive clouds of petrol mist etc.)

2/ the two rubber pipes are tank breather and fuel cap drain. "Blow job" and a finger on the drain hole to find which one whistles as I cant remember which side is which! Can be replaced with any tube really, but they kink very easily. Oh, your drain hole may be plugged up (mine was) - good luck!!

3/ battery tray  - um , from memory - if you mean the the flexi rubber insert it goes on after the tank - dont recall a specific tray, but could be wrong. One thing, if all your pipes are falling apart, I expect the rubber mounts for the tank / battery bolts will be perished too (mine were).

4/ Breva lines were a straight swap and highly recommended if you can find a set. Otherwise I suppose new flexible lines would be the most sensible option - how to best to clamp them well enough is the question isnt it...

One other thing  - the fuel line QR connector elbow is same as a Ford part , and can be bought very cheaply. I bought one to reduce my fuel tank removal anxiety Smile -  cant find the part number in my email, but 100% for sure I got the tip here / the other place Smile
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kiwi dave
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:19 pm

MrButter wrote:

One other thing  - the fuel line QR connector elbow is same as a Ford part , and can be bought very cheaply. I bought one to reduce my fuel tank removal anxiety Smile -  cant find the part number in my email, but 100% for sure I got the tip here / the other place Smile

Ford Fiesta. Ford p/n for the red elbow is 1330 328
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wardentm
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:05 pm

Thanks Dave
Was about to ask for further details.
cheers
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:44 pm

the battery tray goes on after the tank
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:49 pm

Dave, if you need a hand i can pop over and at least give some moral support :-)
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davem
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:35 am

So far so good.

I have made a new fuel line with 6mm pipe and fitted the injector holders and 'T' piece, sourced a 35 bar  brass quick release coupler  from Germany to make life easier in the future.
Really all I need now is the plastic elbow that connects to the red pipe at the tank.

The pipe I had in stock and the brass coupler was £32 but most of that was UPS shipping. These are used by the BMW GS brigade so are a proven item.
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The plastic items on ebay are not really up to fuel injection pressure so hence the extra cost.

While the tank is off I will replace the oil pressure sensor which was easy to get off when I found a 22mm open ring spanner in the back of my tool box.

I am also going to replace the inner plugs because the bloody tank isn't coming off for a while once I have finished.
I  managed to find a Champion alternative for a lot less than the NGK version.
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If anyone one knows where to get the quick release elbow from please shout up.
I couldn't find the Fiesta part so don't know what that is (link please).
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davem
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:42 am

sidrat wrote:
Dave, if you need a hand i can pop over and at least give some moral support :-)

Thanks for that.

You are welcome anytime to see the misery unfold. Might be useful if you are in a similar situation in the future.

PM me for contact details.
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kiwi dave
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:49 am

davem wrote:

If anyone one knows where to get the quick release elbow from please shout up.
I couldn't find the Fiesta part so don't know what that is (link please).

Here's an alternative:

Fuel spigot Aprilia AP8104192, for a Pegaso 650 IE
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:46 am

Hi Dave, why are you sourcing a new elbow if the existing one is OK & it's just the connector collar that is broken? It sounded like you were going to just jubilee (or more sophisticated !) connect new fuel hose to the existing red elbow & then add a QR connector somewhere downstream to make easier ?

Or did I miss somewhere the elbow itself is shot ?

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davem
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:37 am

paulbrice wrote:
Hi Dave, why are you sourcing a new elbow if the existing one is OK & it's just the connector collar that is broken?   It sounded like you were going to just jubilee (or more sophisticated !) connect new fuel hose to the existing red elbow & then add a QR connector somewhere downstream to make easier ?

Or did I miss somewhere the elbow itself is shot ?


The fuel line elbow is shot, the white collar is separated from the elbow itself.  It still holds pressure but  I have now sourced from a UK parts supplier (Gutsibits)  a straight connector which replaced the elbow on other models. This is not a problem  as I have now plenty of fuel pipe to play with.
I am fitting a QR connector downstream and have no plans  to remove the fuel pipe from the red tank fitting again.

I am not sure it would have been a good idea to jubilee clip the fuel line direct to the red tank fitting because of the pressure involved.

I finished  up buying 6mm thick wall petrol proof pipe because  I couldn't be sure the pipe I was using was suitable (paranoia setting in) and jubilee clips for every joint.

What started out as a pressure switch replacement has turned into a bigger job involving the following.


Oil pressure sensor £13.20
Tank connector £8.50
Inner spark plugs £11.54
16mm box spanner £3.14
6mm fuel pipe and Jubilee clips  £18.20
Quick release in line high pressure connector  £32.50

A grand total of £87.08  

note: The factory replacement fuel line assembly alone is £71.40.


Happy days,
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Clancy
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:31 am

kiwi dave wrote:
Run the engine, and then disconnect the wires to the tank, allowing the motor to splutter to a stop.  This reduces the pressure in the fuel line and makes disconnecting easier.

Then while holding your mouth is a special secret gape, push the hose towards the red elbow, while at the same pull the collet away.  It will take several attempts.

Am trying to get the tank off to replace the breather hoses.
I’ve done all the above.
I can reach the connector but simply cannot get it apart.
Is it easier to disconnect the hose at the injectors?
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:37 am

I replaced my breathers without removing the tank. Yes, it's possible.


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Clancy
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:41 am

I can move the tank back to reach the hose ends at the front, but it kinks the fuel line badly at the connector.
Worried that might split it. Hmmm.
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davem
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:58 am

Clancy wrote:
I can move the tank back to reach the hose ends at the front, but it kinks the fuel line badly at the connector.
Worried that might split it. Hmmm.

There's a good chance it will split then you will need to replace the pipes (see my comments above).

If you haven't ready access to new fuel pipe and jubilee clips I would leave well alone.
The factory fuel pipe is connected to the injectors fittings etc. by what looks like heat shrink and you would have a job on to get it sealed again, if you can get them off without damage.
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Clancy
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:43 am

So, with mounting frustration, I decided to leave it be for now, cracked a beer and got onto some other things.
Before locking up the workshop tonight I had a last look at it.
I’d left the tank sitting on some timber front & back which raised it about 2” all round.
Calmly looking at it, I reckon I can do as Beetle said and replace the hoses without removing the tank.
Surprisingly, the left hand hose and Condom already have worm drive hose clamps on them at the front, so someone’s been at this before (even though the cylinder end still has the factory clamp).
Dave, I’ve got the right size fuel injection hose clamps, so no worries there.
This is the last job to do for this year’s service so I’m looking forward to being back on the road very soon.
Thanks all.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:24 am

The left hand pipe-to-condenser fitting is a right tit of a job. Pipe small, spigot big. You will say the in-and-out word several times. May I suggest rubber grease?


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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:31 am

On really reluctant hose fittings, on Grisos you can just unscrew the injector retainer bolts and then pop the injectors out. The tank can then be lifted off and the hose wriggled out through the breather hoses, loom etc. once the tank is off it can be turned turtle, (On a soft surface!) and the coupling talked to sternly. Lubricate it before it is reattached.

Pete
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davem
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:20 am

Pete Roper wrote:
On really reluctant hose fittings, on Grisos you can just unscrew the injector retainer bolts and then pop the injectors out. The tank can then be lifted off and the hose wriggled out through the breather hoses, loom etc. once the tank is off it can be turned turtle, (On a soft surface!) and the coupling talked to sternly. Lubricate it before it is reattached.

Pete

That's basically what I did but the hoses split in the process.
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Clancy
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:26 am

Well f*ck me!
Today I watched a couple of YouTube vids of people undoing the fuel connector.
Came home from work, went into the workshop, and in under 10 seconds I had the damn thing disconnected!
Must’ve farted in the right direction this time Very Happy
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel pipe misery   Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:39 am

There is that Craig, it's a specific fart not a general one.
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