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Robinson_Spike
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PostSubject: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:15 pm

Spent a load of cash having m’GRiSO remapped.
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davem
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:23 pm

What sort of map and where?
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sideshowbob
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:07 pm

GPS?
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:21 am

You dont need a map for Germany, just jump accross the channel and turn left
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Robinson_Spike
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:49 am

davem wrote:
What sort of map and where?

I tried the Beetle maps but my GRiSO didn’t like them so I took it to my local dyno shop in Warrington. I’m headed to Glemseck with some crazy Germans from Coesfeld so the AFR needs to be right for the trip there and back.
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davem
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:01 am

Robinson_Spike wrote:
davem wrote:
What sort of map and where?

I tried the Beetle maps but my GRiSO didn’t like them so I took it to my local dyno shop in Warrington. I’m headed to Glemseck with some crazy Germans from Coesfeld so the AFR needs to be right for the trip there and back.

I'm surprised the Beetle map didn't work.
Any chance of sharing what the tuning shop did to the bike. Did they supply a dyno readout?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:43 am

Robinson_Spike wrote:
davem wrote:
What sort of map and where?

I tried the Beetle maps but my GRiSO didn’t like them so I took it to my local dyno shop in Warrington. I’m headed to Glemseck with some crazy Germans from Coesfeld so the AFR needs to be right for the trip there and back.

Given the number of owners who use Mark's maps without any issues other than pleasant surprise I'd have to guess, from experience, that some previous owner or 'Technician' has screwed about with something they shouldn't have if the correct map isn't working for you.

I'd strongly recommend getting it checked out by someone who knows what they're doing with particular attention being paid to the throttle bodies before spending a heap of time and money at a dyno with someone with little or no Guzzi experience.

Pete
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Grisonut
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:29 pm

Hey OP...I hear that the Power Commander combo is balls to the wall!!!
Do et mang! It's the shiznit!
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:59 am

Hey Spike, what was the problem with Marks map (too smooth & too fast ?) & what did dyno boys do instead (PC, lambdas off ?, etc) ?
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Steak
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:43 am

I think there can be some bike to bike variation, or maybe some environmental/fuel aspects that can make any map more or less effective on any given bike. Mark can only do so much on a remote basis.

I will say that I have tried one of John's (XLRATR) maps for the Stelvio that made my engine run terribly. I was a lone outlier as many others run his maps to great fanfare. Maybe it's just my bike, maybe it's something else, but sometimes a map and a bike just don't play well together.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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Robinson_Spike
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:27 pm

Hi Folks,

As Mr Roper says there are so many of the Beetle maps being loved out there I had no hesitation in getting one for myself but not before the TBs had been checked and re checked having been set at 1st service by Guzzi dealer by using the air screw only - rectified using Carbtune and Mr Ropers' method. reset TPS etc.

Beetle map installed and she went like a train Mr Brice, very strong bottom end and went like a rocket on WOT but having once seized a 2 stroke on the railway straight at Aintree racetrack I have a habit of looking at plugs and sticking my finger in tailpipes. I couldn't see past the db killer so this what I saw when I whipped it out.

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I consulted Mr Beetle, he agreed that it looked lean and very kindly sent me a couple of fuel up maps, it still looked a bit lean to me and with a trip to Spain coming up fast I thought it best to check the AFR down at the local dyno.

For £40 I got a dozen runs on the BeetleV2 map but it was too lean for me from 1/3rd throttle and up - my bike must be a bit 'special' just like my neighbours kid.

Here's the various throttle openings from 1/3rd to WOT - Interesting to see the almost 16:1 Lean Spike at 4800rpm when the VE changes?

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So it was back on with standard exhaust and map for the Brecon Scamper and the subsequent Picos mountains trip, when I returned I put the Termignioni back on and enjoyed the glorious weather for a week or two, for some reason I started to see a bit of sootage on the tailpipe so I made the decision to get my unique machine mapped.

I instructed TT racer Sam West that I wasn't bothered about top end just to get rid of that nasty blip and to reduce the transition from closed to open throttle that had an influence on the chassis when banked over. I found an MWR rock strainer complete with baffle plate which claimed to calm down the incoming air to the TBs. The OE deflector and airbox top are still retained.

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After a few hours we had AFR roughly following the line although due to the previously mentioned glorious weather the ambient temperature in the dyno shop was starting to get much higher than usual we chose to return at a later cooler date and perhaps re check the AFR.

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The Bike feels just as strong as with the Beetle map and perhaps had my GRiSO given enough fuel the BeetleV2 curve would be the same as the Sam West curve, for me it's piece of mind that I'm getting enough fuel to eliminate hot spots around 4800rpm which is motorway getting from A 2 B speed.

Taking into account Beetle map, AFR check, filter and mapping I'm knocking on the door of £600 but I'm happy with what I have gained for the price of an exhaust can.

Here's my result to date in red with the AFR adjusted to suit my special needs GRiSO compared with what the BeetleV2 gave me in blue.

Remember it's nice to be nice :-)

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Last edited by Robinson_Spike on Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:58 pm

Yes, I was terribly vexed. I'm pleased you got it sorted.


cheers


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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:01 am

I think every GRiSO is special. Mark (Beetle) has made a change to my map, because he is good like that, to stop a stutter just off idle, problem solved.

You do have to wonder on some of the variations we all seem to get from what should be identical bikes, just having black paintwork seems to make mine go faster Razz
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davem
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:04 am

I suppose if you want the ultimate custom tune than a visit to a tuning shop is the way to go. The trouble is finding someone capable of doing the business. A pro tuner will spend a good few hours getting things right, hence the cost.

My local tuners (BSD Peterborough) spend a good half day on bikes they haven't seen before and that includes test riding. They have Rexxer software to change the mapping and avoid Power Commanders like the plague. Costs are around £350-£450.  You pays your money and takes your choice.

Looking at the supplied graphs it would seem the OP's bike responded well to getting the AFR to around 13.5:1  which is a pretty normal outcome and something I try to achieve with my own G1100 mapping efforts, which using just a AFR meter is not easy.

I would be interested to know what software was used in the dyno process and whether the lambda sensor was switched off.
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davem
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:05 am

I have recently been watching on Youtube a series of vids by Brooks Davidson in the US. They specialise  in drag and race tuning for jap bikes but the theory and clarity of the explanations of tuning I find fascinating.
The one vid that could be relevant here is on the subject of air filters worth a watch for those interested in such things

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They also use a combination of ecu reflash and a Power Commander The reason being the Power Commander works with the dyno software allowing instant changes to the fueling, making the whole process quicker. Which sort of makes sense when you are spending hours on the dyno wringing out the last drop of power.
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:26 am

I'm also preparing for a trip ..................................
crossing the Simpson Desert, ............................................ so I bought 18 bottles of rum.











Well, we are 2 bottles down, just testing ...................... bounce
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:28 am

Our bikes are unique. Having said that, they vary slightly from one to another, hence more unique. We are also unique.

I know a guy whose 1200 Sport and mine were made in the same factory, in the same month (April 2007) - they are different, physically and the way they run. Unique s what we get.

Most work, some don't!


Last edited by Oz1200Guzzi on Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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davem
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:44 am

Oz1200Guzzi wrote:
Our bikes are unique. Having said that, they vary slightly from one to another, hance more unique. We are also unique.

I know a guy whose 1200 Sport and mine were made in the same factory, in the same month (April 2007) - they are different, physically and the way they run. Unique s what we get.

Most work, some don't!

One was built on a Thursday the other on a Friday afternoon after a liquid lunch. A phenomenon associated with the British bike industry of the sixties and seventies.
You really did not want a Norton Commando built on a Friday.

Friday lunch piss ups were common even in the nineties. I worked in a factory in Nottingham and it was party central at the local watering holes on a Friday.We even had a bar on site with a disco and the occasional stripper, all in work's time. The factory made large calibre  military weapons.


Last edited by davem on Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:00 am; edited 2 times in total
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:54 am

Dave, I had BSAs up until 20 years ago! Know what you are saying. In fact, a BSA built on any day was a bit of a worry.

BSA: Bloody Sore Arse
BSA: Bastards Stop Anywhere

AND they always leaked oil
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:25 am

sidrat wrote:
I think every GRiSO is special. Mark (Beetle) has made a change to my map, because he is good like that, to stop a stutter just off idle, problem solved.

You do have to wonder on some of the variations we all seem to get from what should be identical bikes, just having black paintwork seems to make mine go faster Razz

I'm trying to be nice, but that is just sick.  jocolor

BTW, OP, even though it was like reading Homer in the original Greek, I really appreciate the detailed mapping report.  But did you ever post a trip report/pix of your run to Germany?

Going down to the Moto Grappa now to finish adjusting valves on my, a task which is at the very edge of my skill set. Rolling Eyes  Hoping to ride it to Erie tomorrow, the best way to make a trip to the in-laws less painful. Wink

Bill
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Robinson_Spike
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:32 am

[quote="ghezzi"]I'm also preparing for a trip ..................................
crossing the Simpson Desert, ............................................ so I bought 18 bottles of rum.

Fantastic - Cap’n Jack is a favourite of mine :-)
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Robinson_Spike
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:39 am

Hi Bill, no pics yet as we don’t leave Manchester until next Tuesday. We’re headed to Glemseck 101 near Stuttgart, I’m looking forward to see and hear this 1700cc device, it’s not everyone’s cup of tea but the Radical Guzzi people are responsible for my purchase of a GRiSO last year.

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:16 am

It's appearance doesn't concern me one bit but there is absolutely nothing right in that POS.
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Robinson_Spike
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:33 am

Hmmn I was expecting some folk not to like it but that’s a bit strong...but in the modern world where form is often chosen over function what is the reason for there being nothing right in the POS - have you had unfavourable dealings with this German company Peter?
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing to go to Germany so I bought a map   Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:21 am



^^^^^^^

Have a fine time ... as if you could not.  Very envious.

Had to look up the Glemseck thing -- Glemseck & Guzzi at Glemseck-- as, being a bit of a moto-provincial, had not heard of it.

Oddly enough, given my ignorance of Glemseck, I do know of Leonberg and Eltingen, having been lost enough around Stuttgart over the years.  My German family is in Tuttlingen (south of Stuttgart near the Boden See), so I occasionally find myself (and stoic Kathi, who never complains queen ) doing great circles on A8 and A81 trying to escape the big city.  The Deutsche Bahn is my friend as it never gets lost.  Rolling Eyes

While I tend to share Pete's view of such machines, I also applaud the creativity -- even if it isn't my cup of espresso -- if for no other reason that such seems to draw attention and new blood to the marque.

Bill
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